drivinhardz06 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I've been putting around with that lazy LS1 time bomb long enough. It's time to run what everyone else runs. You're going to be slower. or it'll blow up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevind Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 being in a group of evo owners who race TT, we actually like the new rules. many of my customers who mod their cars entirely off of HP gains, don't come to these events because racing TTU scared them away. granted it still requires a great deal of money to be competitive, but now they don't have to strip off thousands of dollars in aftermarket parts to race in TTA, they can simply detune a little and race in TT3 or TT2. our TTA evos were all very competitive this year... we set 3 track records in that class, and for the most part made everyone move into TTS now with the TT2 and TT3 classing, we can build the cars for TT2 which most of us want to do anyway, then they can be run with two tunes, one for TT2 and one for TT3 with no other changes to the car. at first we werent very happy with the change, but getting rid of the points makes it a lot easier to configure the car for us. in the case of TT3, we will be able to hold the power of the car at the limit for almost the entire powerband (boost control with 500rpm increments built into the stock computer). TT2 we can also easily make the power limit even with stock turbo, with still most of the "Streetability" of the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwyte Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 What about guys like me with motor swaps who were placed in TTA by Nat'l? Where does my car end up now? I had points to play with in TTA to give me some room to set the car up, now I don't. I set the car up to run TTA, if I'm reading the rules for TT3 correctly I'll have to decontent my car to fit within the rule set. My little front splitter cost me 3 points before, now it's going to cost me 0.5 worth of power to weight points. Even if I could find a stock front undertray (on my 25 year old car) it's not going to be intact enough to run, hence my splitter. That means pulling even more stuff from my car to fall within the new 9.5:1 rule vs the old 8.7:1 rule, or having to spend a ton of money to get my butt kicked in TT2. We had 5-6 TTA cars this past season in my region running everything from E36 M3's, E46 M3's, Evo's/STI's, Mustangs etc. The vast majority of them are dual use street cars, not race cars. It's hard to make substantial changes to street cars and still use them to drive to work... Did we really just change all the rules because of people running C5 Corvettes? That doesn't seem quite right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Did we really just change all the rules because of people running C5 Corvettes? That doesn't seem quite right... It was to enable more people driving family cars and taxi-cabs to compete against the fully prepped Corvettes. So they opened up the rules that were limiting the Corvettes. Good luck with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Did we really just change all the rules because of people running C5 Corvettes? That doesn't seem quite right... It was to enable more people driving family cars and taxi-cabs to compete against the fully prepped Corvettes. So they opened up the rules that were limiting the Corvettes. Good luck with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 It was to enable more people driving family cars and taxi-cabs to compete against the fully prepped Corvettes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Jason, Quote of the year!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted October 25, 2012 National Staff Share Posted October 25, 2012 Did we really just change all the rules because of people running C5 Corvettes? That doesn't seem quite right... It was to enable more people driving family cars and taxi-cabs to compete against the fully prepped Corvettes. So they opened up the rules that were limiting the Corvettes. Good luck with that. Actually, it was to help improve the bottom line of Kimberly-Clark---Kleenex sales. And, yes, I did go there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 you gotta admit that logic does make sense. We'll see how it shakes out in practice though - it's not like old TTS/ST2 and TTU/ST1 were completely lopsided Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted October 25, 2012 National Staff Share Posted October 25, 2012 With a '90's Civic being the fastest car in TTS (and faster than any ST2 car) at this past Championships---no, I would say definitely not lopsided. The way to compete against a car that has great features out of the factory box is to allow others to improve their cars enough under the rules to compete against them. Our fastest ST2 cars in SoCal are an older Porsche and older BMW. The other way is to throw the better cars out of the class. However, these rule changes were not about one single class anyway. They were about five classes, and doing what was thought by most to be the best way to improve on future participation levels, and for NASA to be able to highlight their best spectator classes (Super Touring) in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 With a '90's Civic being the fastest car in TTS Don't forget a '90's Civic was winning and almost won TTS at Nationals in '09 as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 FWD give back is too big Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperkins Posted October 26, 2012 Author Share Posted October 26, 2012 FWD give back is too big Where can I get a good deal on a 4-door SHO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 It was to enable more people driving family cars and taxi-cabs to compete against the fully prepped Corvettes. thousands of laps running those...talk about front tire killers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazman Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 (edited) Edited October 27, 2012 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 I still do not understand the decision to eliminate all C5 Corvettes from any points based TT class. I really don't care about PT or ST since I never did appreciate having to run TT against full on $$$ prepped race cars in what I thought was a TT series geared toward street cars. I did get caught up in the madness for a year. I was even thinking about staying in and spending even more $$$ to run in TT3. I am glad I started reading all these post by the NASA staff. It has finally sunk in that TT is an after thought and will continue to be. This thread is labelled TT3 but all the talk is about ST3. Enough talk guess it is time for me to vote with my participation, money and support. The only NASA staff member posting is Greg. We all give him tons of shit so it's only to be expected that he jokes back once in awhile. TT most definitely isn't an "afterthought". Yes it's unfortunate that there is no points-based class for a base C5 anymore, but it is what it is. Overall I'm hoping field sizes increase in both ST3 and TT3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Overall I'm hoping field sizes increase in both ST3 and TT3. This part is true in AZ. TT3 will be bigger than TTA was due to some underpowered TTS cars basically dropping down. ST3 is going to be basically all of our PTA cars with a few people possibly switching from ST2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abad46 Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 (edited) Edited October 27, 2012 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwyte Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 It is interesting why TT isn't it's own entity and I do agree with being confused as to why PT/ST are grouped in with TT. Despite using power to weight or mod points to try and equivalate cars, there's still a big difference between a purpose built race car and a dual use street car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcindric Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 Tires, aero, points, whatever the topic, NASA gives you a chance to have fun and play! No one ever mentions that not all the tracks are the same, built for the same cars, so everyone has a chance. AS WITH ANYTHING in life, there is competition and limiting factors such as dollars available- look at the positives ! Trust me, I am as competitve driven as all of you! Jon M Cindric 2010 TTB GL Champion 2011 TTB GL second 2012 TTA GL Champion & MW TTA second Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z06tracker Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 I am certain I will run ST3 at times during the year. Looking forward to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlkGt3 Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 Since TT3 came out it has made rethink my TTC M3 build as my 996GT3 would now have a place to play and be competitive ( excluding my driving of course ) which it couldn't do in TTS and still be a streetable car. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted October 29, 2012 National Staff Share Posted October 29, 2012 There was a post earlier that was edited since then that questioned Dyno re-classing, and then stated something to the effect that it was not fair that only motor swaps, aftermarket FI, etc. can be Dyno re-classed. That is not true. We offer Dyno re-classing to just about everyone. The only time it is not offered is when the HP and Wt numbers either put the base class too high for the TT points-based classes, or it puts the car is a class so low that it was not intended to ever compete in. For example, we are never going to give a Dyno re-class for an E36 M3 to compete in a class lower than TTD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 The gist I got reading that post was that the guy was saying dyno reclasses themselves weren't fair as compared to points-based cars. I would say someone who goes through the trouble of getting a dyno reclass probably also goes through the trouble of preparing their car to the ruleset more thoroughly, probably evaluates if there are any points saving by getting said reclass, probably tests out several different configurations of the car & parts, etc, etc. Getting beat by someone who out-preps you does sting a little until you step up your game to the same level... BTDT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted October 29, 2012 National Staff Share Posted October 29, 2012 The gist I got reading that post was that the guy was saying dyno reclasses themselves weren't fair as compared to points-based cars. I would say someone who goes through the trouble of getting a dyno reclass probably also goes through the trouble of preparing their car to the ruleset more thoroughly, probably evaluates if there are any points saving by getting said reclass, probably tests out several different configurations of the car & parts, etc, etc. Getting beat by someone who out-preps you does sting a little until you step up your game to the same level... BTDT. He had mentioned both. But, he definitely stated that it was not fair that everyone could not get a Dyno re-class. However, you are correct in your assessment above, but even with that said, the results do not show that Dyno re-classed cars do better than points based cars. It turns out to be about even. And, the drivers that win without Dyno re-classing also tend to be those that "goes through the trouble of preparing their car to the ruleset more thoroughly, probably evaluates if there are any points saving by getting said reclass, probably tests out several different configurations of the car & parts, etc, etc." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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