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Greg G.

Non-OEM Aero Rule Solicitation--time to speak up!

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Greg G.

While we have a good idea of how this rule should look, the exact wording is not completed. It will ultimately be another rule that cannot make everybody happy. We have already had e-mails by drivers asking if they can use their non-OEM wing without taking the -0.5 Mod Factor because it is a "street wing". And, in another thread someone posted whether non-OEM bumpers would be considered OK. I don't see how a Non-OEM Aero rule would not capture non-OEM wings of any kind, or fascias of any kind.

 

Although the rule doesn't need to necessarily mention all of these, the items to consider include: hood and fender vents, fascias, splitters, air dams, canards, side skirts, wings/spoilers, diffusers, vortex generators, window frame air diverters, holes in rear windows or removed rear windows, flat bottom/belly trays, removal of the front windshield, taping of seams, mirror removal, and hardtops (roof line changes is already a Mod Factor). As well, there needs to be consideration that there are a few cars out there that are specialty models, and the OEM produced a real Aero package for those vehicles. The Honda S2000 CR and Boss 302 Laguna Seca package are some obvious ones. It would seem that perhaps they should not be permitted without a Mod Factor, but on the other hand, it would be much more simple if the rule states that if the OEM produced the part at the factory, and it was an option for the production street vehicle, then it does not get the Mod Factor (one caveat regarding the splitter on the Boss 302 Laguna Seca is that Ford specifically states that it is not legal to use it on the street). Or, should the rule be that the Aero on an "OEM Aero" car must be that of the base model or of that generation of the model, etc. For example, should it be legal for someone to take the 2013 ZR1 high performance option spoiler and put it on a C5 Corvette for no Mod Factor? What about optional Porsche "whale tails" that came on some 911 special models, but not most of the base 911's? Should there just be specific models like these that are limited and called out by model/year in the Appendix?

 

So, here is your chance to submit your ideal wording of this rule, and also to list other potential "problem" models.

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obzezzed350

If its not an OEM option for its generation, mod factor

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jason
If its not an OEM option for its generation, mod factor

 

Anything. Vents, tape, window lips, all or nothing.

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kbrew8991

OEM parts / options / replicas thereof intended by mfg for road use = ok w/o mod factor

any other parts, or vents, or ___ = mod factor

 

also apply to all ST classes, not just ST3

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brkntrxn

What about removing covers that allow a base model OEM hood or fender to vent? For instance, the hood vents on an 03-04 Mustang Cobra or the fender vents on a C5Z06.

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jason
What about removing to cvers that allow a base model OEM hood or fender to vent? For instance, the hood vents on an 03-04 Mustang Cobra or the fender vents on a C5Z06.

 

Or pulling the weather stripping under the hood or the rear decklid to let the air out?

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brkntrxn

I say the "non-aero" rule should state that any OEM available hood, fender, bumper cover, etc. is allowed for that generation of car. And the rule should also allow the competitor to do anything to the hood, fender, bumper cover, etc. except actually cut it. What I am envisioning is the things Jason and I pointed out above are legal, as well as pushing out the rear of the front fenders such as the CMC guys do.

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brkntrxn
I say the "non-aero" rule should state that any OEM available hood, fender, bumper cover, etc. is allowed for that generation of car. And the rule should also allow the competitor to do anything to the hood, fender, bumper cover, etc. except actually cut it. What I am envisioning is the things Jason and I pointed out above are legal, as well as pushing out the rear of the front fenders such as the CMC guys do.

 

 

To clarify further, any OEM part that was an available option on the base model of the cars in that generation.

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Cobra4B

My first thought mirrors Jason's. Anything OEM that is street legal is OK w/o mod factor. You have a Boss 302 Laguna Seca then you can run it in street legal form. If you add the non-street legal splitter extension and swap the wing element then you're taking the mod factor.

 

I'll have to think about this more, but I had planned on laying my radiator forward and venting my OEM hood since that was "OK" under the old rules after taking the +1 for the air intake. My reason for doing this is to enhance cooling and open up the front of the engine bay more for even easier servicing.

 

What happens if a lower performance model's part offers an aero advantage? For instance, the base/convertible C5 have the bumper coves sealed off vs. the Z06 which lets air through screens to the engine air intake. It was classified as a points mod last year for PTA/TTA use.

 

BRB - going to build a 8.6:1 ACR Viper on 275s. Don't worry I'll leave the splitter extension off

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IGZOSTD

If this rule is for ST, I vote open areo.

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Cobra4B
If this rule is for ST, I vote open areo.

It's for the new ST3/TT3 class where there is a proposed "no aero" benefit. Basically the class is 9.0:1 with "no aero" and 9.5:1 with aero. This thread is to determine the definition of "aero".

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PushinTheLimit

I'll have to add a picture to see what everyone thinks about this. When I was putting my car back together, I just put an old C5 World Challenge rear bumper on my car. The only differences in this bumper and an OEM is it has very small flares at the bottom and sides of the bumper and a very small lip on the top of it. I seriously doubt it's worth any aero advantage, but certainly not worth a 0.5 mod factor to have it.

 

I don't know who made those style bumpers, maybe someone else can chime in about that.

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yakisoba
I'll have to add a picture to see what everyone thinks about this. When I was putting my car back together, I just put an old C5 World Challenge rear bumper on my car. The only differences in this bumper and an OEM is it has very small flares at the bottom and sides of the bumper and a very small lip on the top of it. I seriously doubt it's worth any aero advantage, but certainly not worth a 0.5 mod factor to have it.

 

I don't know who made those style bumpers, maybe someone else can chime in about that.

It wasn't a stock option. Thus, I would say it would draw the mod factor.

 

I'm with Ken on this issue.

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Cobra4B
I'll have to add a picture to see what everyone thinks about this. When I was putting my car back together, I just put an old C5 World Challenge rear bumper on my car. The only differences in this bumper and an OEM is it has very small flares at the bottom and sides of the bumper and a very small lip on the top of it. I seriously doubt it's worth any aero advantage, but certainly not worth a 0.5 mod factor to have it.

 

I don't know who made those style bumpers, maybe someone else can chime in about that.

I think if you run that bumper w/o the splitter on it then you're fine. Stupid to make you spend $400 more to go find an exact OEM bumper. What's next? Are we going to be checking pat numbers to make sure the panel was actually a "GM" part i.e. true OEM? To me as long as it's the same shape/form then it's fine. The little "flares" on the bumper Michael is talking about are designed to flow with a car with side skirts. They're purely cosmetic when running the full ACP aero-kit.

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kbrew8991

a line will get drawn somewhere and make people mad in the process

 

let's draw the line as logically as possible to not get into any "slippery slope" situations and make things worse

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Cobra4B
a line will get drawn somewhere and make people mad in the process

 

let's draw the line as logically as possible to not get into any "slippery slope" situations and make things worse

I'm all for that... then can we get NASA to agree to not move the line for 5 years minimum? I've had my lines redrawn 3 times now.

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Kubs

Like Brain I had every intention of taking the +1 point for venting my hood. I have already laid down my radiator, but not cut the hood yet. My big intention is to improve cooling as well. I know the vented hood can add downforce, but without a splitter or other body mods to help direct air in, how much downforce is there to be gained? If its a big deal shouldn't it be worth more than +1 point for the other TT/PT classes? A fascia mod is +3.

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Falcon
OEM parts / options / replicas thereof intended by mfg for road use = ok w/o mod factor

any other parts, or vents, or ___ = mod factor

 

also apply to all ST classes, not just ST3

 

Not just no, but hell no!

 

After giving more power/less weight, leave ST2 alone, it hasn't bothered anyone.

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Cobra4B
Like Brain I had every intention of taking the +1 point for venting my hood. I have already laid down my radiator, but not cut the hood yet. My big intention is to improve cooling as well. I know the vented hood can add downforce, but without a splitter or other body mods to help direct air in, how much downforce is there to be gained? If its a big deal shouldn't it be worth more than +1 point for the other TT/PT classes? A fascia mod is +3.

Slight correction... it'll reduce lift vs. "adding downforce"

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Varkwso
OEM parts / options / replicas thereof intended by mfg for road use = ok w/o mod factor

any other parts, or vents, or ___ = mod factor

 

....

 

I like this one but restrict to st3

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Cobra4B

Can we allow vented hoods in the name of cooling? The reduction in lift will be of minimal benefit compared to running a proper front splitter etc.

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Bnjmn

How about this:

 

hood and fender vents, - no penalty

 

fascias, - point mod IF the replacement fascia has a built-in splitter or canards or extends >2" forward (at its furthest point) than OEM piece or is lower than OEM piece (including factory air dam); competitor must show pics of compliant measurements, otherwise replacement piece is presumed to be an aero mod. Fine to cut additional holes in/add ducts to front fascia.

For the rear fascia, wider is fine as long as OEM shape is intact and no additional venting holes; if there are venting holes on an otherwise compliant non-OEM piece must be covered up/filled in);

This will allow guys to respectably use (ie w/o a hack job) intercoolers/bigger I/Cs and brake ducts without immediately kicking them to the aero class. The above limitations should prevent/significantly limit aero performance gain.

 

wider fenders - no penalty (assuming no built-in canards/wicker/etc; vents are fine)

 

splitters, - point mod

 

air dams, - point mod

 

canards, - point mod

 

side skirts, - point mod

 

wings/spoilers, - point mod

 

diffusers, - point mod

 

vortex generators, - point mod (I think these can be functionally the same as canards)

 

window frame air diverters AND removal of any OEM weatherstripping/drain rails/etc, - fine, assuming diverters are B pillar mods that don't stick out from the car

 

holes in rear windows or removed rear windows, - point mod

 

flat bottom/belly trays, - point mod, but no point mod for a flat undertray that extends to front axle line

 

removal of the front windshield, - point mod

 

taping of seams AND taping/covering any holes in fascia, - no penalty

 

mirror removal, and - no penalty

 

hardtops (roof line changes is already a Mod Factor). - no penalty if the hardtop roofline is the same/nearly the same as OEM part. I don't think cars w/OEM removable sunroof tops should be forced to use them, for safety reasons among others, and should be able to swap in non-OEM parts (intended for road use or not) that replicate the OEM roof silhouette.

 

For all of the below - I think the rule should be that as long as the base model of that body style came w/o a particular aero part or with a different version (i.e. splitter, air dam, canard, vortex generator, wing, spoiler, non-flat undertray or undertray behind front axle, diffuser or aero-enhanced rear bumper) then mod points should be taken based off any change as compared to the base model part:

 

Honda S2000 CR and Boss 302 Laguna Seca package - point mod

2013 ZR1 high performance option spoiler and put it on a C5 Corvette - point mod

What about optional Porsche "whale tails" that came on some 911 special models - point mod

STi/Evo OEM wing - point mod (base models would be WRX/MR?)

 

Swapping parts from base models within a generation would not carry an aero mod.

 

I'd like the rules setup so people can relatively easily switch between aero and non. The common parts that are currently used are splitters, canards, wings and the occasional diffuser, which are all relatively easy to remove.

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Cobra4B
How about this:

 

hood and fender vents, - no penalty

 

fascias, - point mod IF the replacement fascia has a built-in splitter or canards or extends >2" forward (at its furthest point) than OEM piece or is lower than OEM piece (including factory air dam); competitor must show pics of compliant measurements, otherwise replacement piece is presumed to be an aero mod. Fine to cut additional holes in/add ducts to front fascia.

For the rear fascia, wider is fine as long as OEM shape is intact and no additional venting holes; if there are venting holes on an otherwise compliant non-OEM piece must be covered up/filled in);

This will allow guys to respectably use (ie w/o a hack job) intercoolers/bigger I/Cs and brake ducts without immediately kicking them to the aero class. The above limitations should prevent/significantly limit aero performance gain.

 

wider fenders - no penalty (assuming no built-in canards/wicker/etc; vents are fine)

 

splitters, - point mod

 

air dams, - point mod

 

canards, - point mod

 

side skirts, - point mod

 

wings/spoilers, - point mod

 

diffusers, - point mod

 

vortex generators, - point mod (I think these can be functionally the same as canards)

 

window frame air diverters AND removal of any OEM weatherstripping/drain rails/etc, - fine, assuming diverters are B pillar mods that don't stick out from the car

 

holes in rear windows or removed rear windows, - point mod

 

flat bottom/belly trays, - point mod, but no point mod for a flat undertray that extends to front axle line

 

removal of the front windshield, - point mod

 

taping of seams AND taping/covering any holes in fascia, - no penalty

 

mirror removal, and - no penalty

 

hardtops (roof line changes is already a Mod Factor). - no penalty if the hardtop roofline is the same/nearly the same as OEM part. I don't think cars w/OEM removable sunroof tops should be forced to use them, for safety reasons among others, and should be able to swap in non-OEM parts (intended for road use or not) that replicate the OEM roof silhouette.

 

For all of the below - I think the rule should be that as long as the base model of that body style came w/o a particular aero part or with a different version (i.e. splitter, air dam, canard, vortex generator, wing, spoiler, non-flat undertray or undertray behind front axle, diffuser or aero-enhanced rear bumper) then mod points should be taken based off any change as compared to the base model part:

 

Honda S2000 CR and Boss 302 Laguna Seca package - point mod

2013 ZR1 high performance option spoiler and put it on a C5 Corvette - point mod

What about optional Porsche "whale tails" that came on some 911 special models - point mod

STi/Evo OEM wing - point mod (base models would be WRX/MR?)

 

Swapping parts from base models within a generation would not carry an aero mod.

 

I'd like the rules setup so people can relatively easily switch between aero and non. The common parts that are currently used are splitters, canards, wings and the occasional diffuser, which are all relatively easy to remove.

Ben for POTUS 2012!!!

 

Seriously.... that seems pretty logical to me and covers all the concerns I have.

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obzezzed350

So you are proposing the ST3 aero mod factors list should be longer than the entire ST mod factor list? Seems ridiculous to me...I dont think Greg/NASA would have the data or the time to collect it, to assign a mod factor to every aero mod imaginable.

Edited by Guest

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jason

Holy crap. If it's not factory profile, it's a mod. Any change, is a mod.

KISS yall.

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