kbrew8991 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Holy crap. If it's not factory profile, it's a mod. Any change, is a mod.KISS yall. and on the KISS front - all mod factors currently apply to any and all ST classes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Holy crap. If it's not factory profile, it's a mod. Any change, is a mod.KISS yall. and on the KISS front - all mod factors currently apply to any and all ST classes... Hmmm... no aero ST2 car on 275s would be 7.1:1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrsideways Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 If it's OEM let it fly no points. Reason being, Sometimes when buying a used car your stuck with what you can find. If you happen to find one with some sort of factory body kit it's going to suck having to buy, fenders, bumpers, trunk etc etc to replace all those items with base trim items. We all know a factory spoiler is going to do VIRTUALLY nothing in terms of a performance upgrade. Cars that come with actual aero mods (S2000 CR, and 350z nismo come to mind) usually receive their own base class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperkins Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 How ironic is it that we must revert to the PT rules for clarification? Let's not go overboard and make everyone put their OEM side window moldings and rain drip rails back on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Let's not go overboard and make everyone put their OEM side window moldings and rain drip rails back on. There will be a lot of garage corner scrounging going on. "ST3, brought to you by Vettenuts.net" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 How ironic is it that we must revert to the PT rules for clarification? Let's not go overboard and make everyone put their OEM side window moldings and rain drip rails back on. Um... yeah I'm rather screwed if you guys try to make that one stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Holy crap. If it's not factory profile, it's a mod. Any change, is a mod.KISS yall. This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Holy crap. If it's not factory profile, it's a mod. Any change, is a mod.KISS yall. This So you two are OK with factory track-editions with real aero competing at 9:1? Even with the OEM, but not road-legal, splitters installed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bnjmn Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) I think it is easier to see what is allowed than what is not allowed, for purposes of discussion. The ST3 rules should be longer than ST2 to flesh out the aero mod factor rule. For a rule, try this: Aero modifications listed below will incur a .5 modification factor: 1. the addition of any non-BTM Aero Part or the removal any BTM Aero Part 2. removal/alteration of front windshield, rear windows and rear windshield (other than replacement with plastic, per the CCR, or the addition of NACA ducts, solely for the purpose of air intake, in any window or window opening other than the front windshield) "Aero Part" means (i) any part that functions primarily as a splitter, air dam, wing, spoiler, diffuser, side skirt, canard, wicker, vortex generator, fascia or external window frame air diverter; or (ii) any contoured undertray or the portion of any undertray that is located behind the front axle line. Neither the blocking of any existing opening nor the creation of additional opening in the front fascia will result in a modification factor. ------------ Someone needs to confirm the BTM reference for AWD turbo cars as I think the Evos should relate to the MR, but I'm not sure what the STi's should use. If the non-BTM factory aero part (eg little spoiler on a Mustang) doesn't affect performance, then simply remove it to avoid the mod factor. I see that the fascia thing is apparently too exciting, so I deleted it. Edited October 8, 2012 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) i am the guy with the grand am spec deck lid wing on the mustang. i would never say that it brings nothing to the table. it adds a bit of stability, but not enough to require anything on the nose for balance and there is the reason i bring this up. maybe its a matter of degrees. compare the little thing i have on my car to a full splitter, vented hood, dive planes, and roof level wing at the same weight or horsepower cost is a laugh. its common sense. the in for a penny in for a pound point of view i see. its not logical but its straight forward. i made my request. the steeda street wing is considered the oem replacement part by grand am and as such i am asking that it be treated as oem. penny pound Edited October 8, 2012 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Maybe clarify the 2nd part with "windshield and front glass" vs. front/rear windows. When I hear that I think side glass. Maybe I missed it but none of what you wrote addresses venting a stock hood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 the steeda street wing is considered the oem replacement part by grand am and as such i am asking that it be treated as oem. Odd that Grand-Am would consider it "factory" when it's not a Ford part and not offered on any factory produced version of the car. If it adds stability and downforce then it's sero. If it doesn't then remove it. My current lexan spoiler adds some stability in high speed turns and a bunch under braking. However, I don't need to run any front aero to balance it (I can't... no more points). I plan on removing mine as it's clearly "aero" to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bnjmn Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I didn't include vents or fenders in the def of Aero Part so they are free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I didn't include vents or fenders in the def of Aero Part so they are free. That's what I figured... just checking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) it is odd. it predates ford's upgrade of ford racing. at the time ford racing had a developement developement alliance with steeda. dean martin did the developement for ford on that wing as i recall and it was ford racing thyouat got it homologated and not steeda. if you look at the current boss 302r in continental tire racing this season and last, the steeda street wing is on the car. its not the boss 302 lip. its not the boss 302 laguna seca wing. its not the boss 302S comp 800 wing. it is the approved part. just the same, i am not making it up. it is considered the oem replacement part for grand am gs class racing for mustang fr500c and for boss 302r. Edited October 8, 2012 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I didn't know that we're all building Grand Am cars...? (might cost less though ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bnjmn Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I think all aero parts, no matter how effective, should be measured against what came on the base trim model for a given vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlfpkrcn1 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 it is odd. it predates ford's upgrade of ford racing. at the time ford racing had a developement developement alliance with steeda. dean martin did the developement for ford on that wing as i recall and it was ford racing thyouat got it homologated and not steeda. if you look at the current boss 302r in continental tire racing this season and last, the steeda street wing is on the car. its not the boss 302 lip. its not the boss 302 laguna seca wing. its not the boss 302S comp 800 wing. it is the approved part. just the same, i am not making it up. it is considered the oem replacement part for grand am gs class racing for mustang fr500c and for boss 302r. From the GS rules... It doesn't look like a Ford part number nor do they call it Ford OEM. http://www.grand-am.com/Portals/0/Images/PDF/%28GS%29and%20%28ST%29SpecificCarRegulations2012_10_4.pdf Permitted replacement components1. One piece drive shaft, part number M-XXXX-X, fordmotorsport.com 2. Permitted mono-ball in front upper third link mount. Available through Multimatic Motorsports, Inc. 3. Front rotor 355 mm. 4. Front caliper upgrade per rules. 5. Permitted ABS part number 7FRT-2C353-AA Multimatic Motorsports, Inc. Phone 905-470-0025. 6. Rear wing 605-SW100 with pedestal modification and mounting shims by Multimatic. (Mounting to be at same angle of attack as 2005 Mustang) supplied by Multimatic, phone 905.470.0025 7. Permitted Boss front grill as produced for road car. 8. Permitted alternate connecting rod. (Manley Part # 14318) 9. Permitted 2013 Boss 302 front fascia part# DR33-16C928-AAW, hood part# DR33-16612-AG and rear taillight panel part# DR33-13B504-AC, DR33-13B505-AC and associated components and hardware. 2013 Boss 302 lower front “spoiler” or “splitter” 17626A, must be replaced with GT lower front “spoiler” or “splitter” 17A989. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I think all aero parts, no matter how effective, should be measured against what came on the base trim model for a given vehicle. i think it depends a lot on what you are hoping for in participation. put a corvette and a mustang in a wind tunnel and there's no comparison between the two. one car needs some help a lot more than another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlfpkrcn1 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I think all aero parts, no matter how effective, should be measured against what came on the base trim model for a given vehicle. i think it depends a lot on what you are hoping for in participation. put a corvette and a mustang in a wind tunnel and there's no comparison between the two. one car needs some help a lot more than another. And that is why GA allowed the non OEM rear spoiler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 i never said it was a ford part number. its a steeda part number. it is the approved part for the car by grand am and not a ford part number. that is what ford wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJM Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) Holy crap. If it's not factory profile, it's a mod. Any change, is a mod.KISS yall. Agree 100% Think of the track day guy considering stepping up to NASA if he sees all the cars have cut up hoods, fenders, fascia's etc he is less likely to join. Edited October 8, 2012 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlfpkrcn1 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) the steeda street wing is considered the oem replacement part by grand am and as such i am asking that it be treated as oem. That should read "Grand Am allows the Steeda wing to be used in GS competition, and I have requested this part to be considered for OEM replacment and not take Aero Mod hit" Edited October 8, 2012 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlfpkrcn1 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Double post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 i am making a simple request. common sense. i am not asking for full blown aero. just the little piece that was developed for the non-aero grand am series. i am trying to decide if i want to run this class. i am smart enough to know that a 4 seat unaerodynamic car like the mustang is not a competitive platform vs a 2 seat sports car like the corvette if its just power to weight ratio. it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that out. this is my one ask. yes or no. its up to you guys. i think a black and white rule on this subject is probably counter productive unless you would like a corvette class rather than a class with corvettes in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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