robbodleimages Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I would have thought the AI directors would have done the exact opposite, and trired to stem the tide of new Mustangs, as diversity is much cooler and more interesting, but....not the case. many to most of the new mustang racers are new to american iron. as time has passed the mustangs have become more and more st2 viable. you can make a fair case that stemming the tide would have diverted the flow to a great degree. where would that put ai now? The "new mustang" is approaching ten years old and replacement at ford motor company. diversity is cool and interesting. a class largely populated with 20 year old cars is much less so. by the way, its not a heated discussion. its basic philosopy of two different points of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Algozine Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKeyserSoze Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 Heh. What started out as a thread for rule changes hasn't had a single rule change proposed yet. I propose that if you run an old carbed Fox body that we get some additional break -Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBR Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 I propose that if you run an old carbed Fox body that we get some additional break Wait. My Fox has fuel injection and the S197 has a carb... And just to be clear, my request to get rid of the dash rule was a rule change proposal, but apparently it has been predetermined to constitute a major change and those aren't allowed this year. Looks like I'll have to reinforce the Gorilla tape holding my gutter on for another season. j Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKeyserSoze Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 As I'm under my dash trying to sort out a wiring issue today, I begin to get mad that we have to have a dash. Can we really not change that rule? Its not a major change. It shouldn't even be there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nape Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 As I'm under my dash trying to sort out a wiring issue today, I begin to get mad that we have to have a dash. Can we really not change that rule? Its not a major change. It shouldn't even be there.... Just mount the wiring to the outside of the dash. It's a lot easier. If I wanted a show car, I would've bought a pretty 'vette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGSarsfield Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Folks, I don't have the answer, but there are a couple of points to consider. I, too, am disappointed that there is not more variety of cars in American iron, but thank goodness for Todd Davis and his Grand National. The non-Mustangs are 20+ years old. To accommodate them, the Mustangs are carrying more weight for similar horsepower. So, GM and Chrysler didn't build a similar-sized car for a decade...should the rest of us be penalized for that? What about the GTO and the Holden-based cars? Seriously, I don't know the answer, but the 2012 rule changes seem to go against the stated intent of AI: "2. Intent The American Iron Series Rules encourage each competitor to create an aftermarket-sourced configuration that will make their car perform at an optimum level. The intent of the rules is to allow competitors to use a combination of parts that will increase the performance and competitiveness of the vehicle and create promotional exposure for vendors. It is the intent of the series to serve as a “showcase” for aftermarket tuners and manufacturers and to create tremendous exposure for their products and services while providing a friendly, accommodating, and challenging environment for the series drivers. This approach is intended to create a reciprocal relationship that will encourage the aftermarket tuners to give their full support and attention to the competitors in the series." On the other hand, if ABS was not limited to a 2 decade old system, it would seriously decrease the number of participating cars and drivers, which would be counter-productive. Besides a couple of the best drivers are driving older GM products. Loosing that talent would be a tragedy. The danger is of American Iron becoming either a Mustang or a vintage racing class, neither of which would be constructive. What happens in 2 years when the next generation of Cameros and Mustangs arrive with lower weight, IRS, and high horsepower???? I'll leave it to the more experienced racers and directors to make these decisions, but should I "dumb out" my car to accommodate older cars? I doubt that I could keep up with TJ and Dave without the weight penalty. RG "Jerry" Sarsfield Team Sarsfield Racing MidWest AI #29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nape Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 On the other hand, if ABS was not limited to a 2 decade old system, it would seriously decrease the number of participating cars and drivers, which would be counter-productive. Besides a couple of the best drivers are driving older GM products. Loosing that talent would be a tragedy.The danger is of American Iron becoming either a Mustang or a vintage racing class, neither of which would be constructive. What happens in 2 years when the next generation of Cameros and Mustangs arrive with lower weight, IRS, and high horsepower???? I'll leave it to the more experienced racers and directors to make these decisions, but should I "dumb out" my car to accommodate older cars? I doubt that I could keep up with TJ and Dave without the weight penalty. RG "Jerry" Sarsfield Team Sarsfield Racing MidWest AI #29 Won't have to worry about me much longer. My $1200 "$4000" trans gave out in July, the engine needs $1500 to get up to the 2012 power limits, and my 3.40 center section needs to be rebuilt. For the cost of "freshening", I'm putting a CMC car together out of old AI parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBR Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 TJ, The mathematics of CMC really do make a lot of sense and you have some great guys to run CMC with in MW/GL. Central Region was doing a good job getting AI cars out with several more AS guys switching over to NASA for next season. There were no CMC cars in CR last season. Either way, it's racing. j Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGSarsfield Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 TJ, I'm also accustomed to being passed by CMC cars, so I expect to see the back of your car again. Good luck on the CMC build. RG (Jerry) Sarsfield Team Sarsfield Racing MidWest AI #29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer91m Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 @Firehawkclone: Will Stukus woulda coulda shoulda won AI this year. HE had the car to beat! If he knew the track, he would have won that race going away. I would have fought him tooth and nail, but I know myself that he had the package to win. Unfortunately, he doesn't know Mid Ohio in the wet, got impatient, and it cost him the championship! The rules do not favor the Mustang. I left AI last year because the HUGE rules change basically F'd the new Mustang. I ONLY ran AI at Nationals because of the big field and close competition. I was surprised to be near the front. I expected the front row to be all GM. I'm not sure why it wasn't. The new Mustangs are just more developed as a starting point than the old GM products, but with everything that the rules allow, there is no reason a GM car couldn't/shouldn't win. An extra 2" of wheelbase, Better aero, Better power to weight??? It's better on paper. It just needs to get built... It sounds like we have to get cars to the track and let each other drive them. Then we need to go to the Sunoco garages for some show and tell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 here's my question. what happens in AI when the old gm cars wear out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBR Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 here's my question. what happens in AI when the old gm cars wear out? Sounds like the bow tie folks need to start talking to GM about making a track worthy car. I grew up a Mopar guy. (Still have a built 366 SB and A727 trans in the garage waiting for something worthy) Now the GM guys know how I've felt since the K-car. j Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nape Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 here's my question. what happens in AI when the old gm cars wear out? It becomes an all Mustang series, because no one is building new GM cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 i would have thought the gm bunch would have been chomping at the bit to get that new car out on the track to mix it up with those hated mustangs and the evil that is ford racing. what happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBR Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 i would have thought the gm bunch would have been chomping at the bit to get that new car out on the track. I think there are a lot of GM guys that would love to. I know Brian Groth has tried. Other than the Stevenson Grand Am team hand making race parts, I don't think there is much factory or aftermarket support for them. I've heard $150,000 to buy a competitive car from Stevenson compared to $80,000 from Rehagan for a new Mustang. The new Camaros aren't a good track car from the factory the way the latest Mustang chassis is, so that leaves you to engineer and fab all your own parts. Most of us don't have the skill or resources to make that realistic. j Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGSarsfield Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 AI rules for 2013: 1-with the added weight required to run a Mustang with ABS, the 275 tires are too narrow. Can the allowed width be increased? 2-I suspect that the dollars spent on Toyo tires by the members far exceeds the benefit realized by NASA. If we must run Toyo, can it be a race tire rather than a street tire? RG "Jerry" Sarsfield MidWest AI #29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic_Cobra Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 here's my question. what happens in AI when the old gm cars wear out? Maybe I'm missing something. If I were a Mopar guy, I'd be building a Challenger. If I were Chevy guy, I'd be building a Camaro. There are other cars out there that aren't Mustangs. The Camaro people have been bragging for almost two years now about how great the Camaro is because it is outselling the Mustang. Where the hell are they? They stopped building muscle cars for nearly a decade! That's why there is little aftermarket support. The Mustang has been selling for over 48 years without interruption! The Mustang has not always sold well but the Mustang has a loyal fan following and has had strong aftermarket support for almost twenty years. There are over 50 aftermarket cylinder heads available for a Ford 302! 5 million Camaros built since the Ponycar war began and over nine million Mustangs. Surely a few of these bowties are track worthy. Are there people out there that are open tracking Camaros/Challengers with failures? What are all the problems of the production car? The magazines are praising the Camaro as the better track car but you guys are saying the opposite. If we gave the new Camaro a 200 lb weight break would we have a dozen new cars show up to race? off my perch. carry on. What were we talking about again? Rules changes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Algozine Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Won't have to worry about me much longer. I'm putting a CMC car together out of old AI parts. I"m doing the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 only by association, this gm drivers move from ai to cmc would seem to add creedence to the rumor that the s197 mustang is being removed from cmc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Ginsberg Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 only by association, this gm drivers move from ai to cmc would seem to add creedence to the rumor that the s197 mustang is being removed from cmc. The S197 is still eligible for CMC, although it's had a few performance adjustments for 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 i just read those rules. nice. like i said, s197 mustangs are removed from cmc. brutal. with only old cars in the class, how much longer before the class is aged out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smitty328 Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 The new CMC Classic Mustangs and Camaros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeP-99Z Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Won't have to worry about me much longer. I'm putting a CMC car together out of old AI parts. I"m doing the same thing. Likely going the same route by 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smitty328 Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Likely going the same route by 2014. NOT approved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts