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2013 Rules Change Requests (RCRs)


tacovini

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robbodleimages

the front office should probably give you some relief on that tire issue. btw....joel here is a reason why there shouldnt be a spec mustang S197 class of any kind. it was mentioned in the cmc rules thread that this direction is in play among the grand poobas. another reason is that 4.6L 3v mustangs, cammer 50r motor mustangs, 5.0 coyote mustangs and 5.0 roadrunner motor mustangs are all different. how can you spec a class with 4 different base motors in it?

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SpecE30 and maybe Spec Boxster are the only Spec classes that NASA has that are exactly 1 (one) engine & chassis combination. If you want to get super technical even SpecE30 really has two slightly different bumper setups depending on year and I'm not 100% sure on the Boxsters. 944 - several engine & chassis combos, 350Z - big variations depending on model year, Miata - same, etc. How do you balance them - restrictor plate variations, mods allowed on one chassis but not another, different weights, etc. Not too much different that balancing a class with different cars all together... in other words, it's not rocket surgery.

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only by association, this gm drivers move from ai to cmc would seem to add creedence to the rumor that the s197 mustang is being removed from cmc.

 

The S197 is still eligible for CMC, although it's had a few performance adjustments for 2013.

 

 

Thats not eligible

 

Gonna try ST3 this year. That way I can P&M about the damn corvettes LOL

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The rule change in CMC was a nice way of telling a S197 to get the hell out or ride in the back!But it's your decision to do so.

 

Robert

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Mystic_Cobra
I am running In AIX due to the 275 Toyos not being enough tire for the weight my Challenger

What problem are you having that makes you say the tire isn't enough?

What does your Challenger weigh?

What are your dyno numbers?

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@Firehawkclone: Will Stukus woulda coulda shoulda won AI this year. HE had the car to beat! If he knew the track, he would have won that race going away. I would have fought him tooth and nail, but I know myself that he had the package to win. Unfortunately, he doesn't know Mid Ohio in the wet, got impatient, and it cost him the championship!

 

The rules do not favor the Mustang. I left AI last year because the HUGE rules change basically F'd the new Mustang. I ONLY ran AI at Nationals because of the big field and close competition. I was surprised to be near the front. I expected the front row to be all GM. I'm not sure why it wasn't. The new Mustangs are just more developed as a starting point than the old GM products, but with everything that the rules allow, there is no reason a GM car couldn't/shouldn't win. An extra 2" of wheelbase, Better aero, Better power to weight??? It's better on paper. It just needs to get built...

 

It sounds like we have to get cars to the track and let each other drive them. Then we need to go to the Sunoco garages for some show and tell...

 

I already do this about 5 times a year.

 

Dean, I disagree. We have an AI prepped 4th Gen, and my 2000 GT sitting in our garage. The camaro with an additional 65-80 rwhp can barely get within 1 second of the crappier of the currently racing mustang. That's me driving both cars at the same track I can drive blind. Granted the camaro has about 1 second to find but without abs, its deadmeat in the braking zone....and is sitting on a huge HP advantage. Are either cars to the full extent of AI rules? No. But are pretty typical. The fourth Gen camaro will never be in the league with the s197 without spending a lot of money every year trying to keep up with FRPP. I totally understand those guys going to cmc in this age of cutting back.

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CAR 54 WHERE ARE YOU
I am running In AIX due to the 275 Toyos not being enough tire for the weight my Challenger

What problem are you having that makes you say the tire isn't enough?

What does your Challenger weigh?

What are your dyno numbers?

Over 3850 w-me and full of fuel

I just wasn't competitive on 275s Just too much sliding around on over heated tires.

HP - I am not AI legal as of right now

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Mystic_Cobra
I am running In AIX due to the 275 Toyos not being enough tire for the weight my Challenger

What problem are you having that makes you say the tire isn't enough?

What does your Challenger weigh?

What are your dyno numbers?

Over 3850 w-me and full of fuel

I just wasn't competitive on 275s Just too much sliding around on over heated tires.

HP - I am not AI legal as of right now

I'm not trying to start trouble but genuinely trying to understand your situation.

If my google-fu serves me well, you finished 4th of 6 cars, 2nd of 5, a DNF, 2nd of 5, and 1st of 5 in your points races and 5th for the season in your region.

Based on that record, I'm not sure you need any help.

Do you want to move to AI?

If you run in AI, you'd have to make less power and probably want to cut more weight out of the car. Both of which would help your tire situation.

If you continue to run in AIX, why not get bigger tires?

How high were your tire temps?

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RGSarsfield

OK, now it's December and still no info on 2013 rules. Soon to get started on changes for 2013 but unable to do so until rules are decided and published.

Any estimate as to when the 2013 changes for AI will be available???

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Remember Jerry, the directors agreed to no major changes for 2013. And considering that repealing the lame ass dash rule is considered a "major" change, I wouldn't be too concerned about anything relevant coming out.

 

And good point about timing. CMC took less time to castrate the S197 than we have taken to implement only minor changes.

 

j

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robbodleimages
CMC took less time to castrate the S197 than we have taken to implement only minor changes.

 

j

 

actually, if you read al fernandez post on those cmc rules, he refers to ongoing discussions about a S197 spec mustang class.

 

my take is that the changes to cmc have force consideration of major changes elsewhere. ive heard that the talk is taking all the 05 or newer mustangs to be moved to their own class that will have its own breakdown based on engine hp and prep level.

 

so....who knows.

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CMC took less time to castrate the S197 than we have taken to implement only minor changes.

 

j

 

actually, if you read al fernandez post on those cmc rules, he refers to ongoing discussions about a S197 spec mustang class.

 

my take is that the changes to cmc have force consideration of major changes elsewhere. ive heard that the talk is taking all the 05 or newer mustangs to be moved to their own class that will have its own breakdown based on engine hp and prep level.

 

so....who knows.

 

I am for sure not involved in all the talks, but the theme is still only small changes this year for AI, so don't panic yet. Just work on the cars refresh parts but don't wait on the rules for some major issue.

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robbodleimages

it doesnt effect me. my car will fit into a class where i wont win anyway. its really not a big deal. this off season we are going to get the shocks rebuilt and dyno'd. acquire some springs so we can change at the track. we might paint the car back to our original parnelli jones/bill stroppe scheme. i will clean my grand am approved factory dash that looks like a new street car and mount some fresh sponsor decals to show on the in car video(tweek...

 

i am afraid the spec s197 class is coming and they may forget that not all s197 race cars come with a 4.6L 3v, coyote 5.0, or boss 302.....like your's for instance.

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marshallmosty

In the process of finishing rear flares for the FOX to "keep up with the Jones' "... Also replacing the tired 302 with a 331... Where does this money pit end?

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i am afraid the spec s197 class is coming and they may forget that not all s197 race cars come with a 4.6L 3v, coyote 5.0, or boss 302.....like your's for instance.

 

I hope this is a bad rumor, I know of at least three Texas S197s being built for AI which starts in January. It’s looking like we could have 12+ car counts.

 

If there is a change they need to announce it!

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marshallmosty

 

i am afraid the spec s197 class is coming and they may forget that not all s197 race cars come with a 4.6L 3v, coyote 5.0, or boss 302.....like your's for instance.

 

I hope this is a bad rumor, I know of at least three Texas S197s being built for AI which starts in January. It’s looking like we could have 12+ car counts.

 

If there is a change they need to announce it!

 

Mark,

The director's are still discussing the rule set... Hopefully we will have them published soon. However, there has been ZERO discussion at the director level of a "Spec S197" class.

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Mystic_Cobra

 

i am afraid the spec s197 class is coming and they may forget that not all s197 race cars come with a 4.6L 3v, coyote 5.0, or boss 302.....like your's for instance.

 

I hope this is a bad rumor, I know of at least three Texas S197s being built for AI which starts in January. It’s looking like we could have 12+ car counts.

 

If there is a change they need to announce it!

 

Not sure where Rob is getting his info, but this is news to me. Not that I am anyone special...

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[quote name="marshallmostyMark' date='

The director's are still discussing the rule set... Hopefully we will have them published soon. However, there has been ZERO discussion at the director level of a "Spec S197" class.[/quote]

 

You directors have a very hard job - let me first say thanks for all that you guys do to help us have a fun place to do what we love. That being said, can you give us some guidance on what "soon" will likely mean this year? Last year it meant Halloween, then Thanksgiving, etc. We've blown through all the normal milestones and seem to be cutting it really close this year, which seems to imply bigger changes than Todd originally let on. No problem. You guys have some pretty complex issues to work out and I'm all for taking your time and getting it right.

 

But.... Our 2013 season begins in 44 days and we have a LOT of new guys finishing builds, trying to get tech done before the race, trying to get annual dynos done before the race, etc. Myself included. I'm actually doing my dyno cert THIS weekend as it's the only free weekend I have before the race. If we can't get the rules posted anytime soon, could one of the directors at least give some guidance as to what's on the table and let us make some educated guesses to finish getting our cars ready?

 

AI #29

Texas

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marshallmosty

The director's are still discussing the rule set... Hopefully we will have them published soon. However, there has been ZERO discussion at the director level of a "Spec S197" class.

 

You directors have a very hard job - let me first say thanks for all that you guys do to help us have a fun place to do what we love. That being said, can you give us some guidance on what "soon" will likely mean this year? Last year it meant Halloween, then Thanksgiving, etc. We've blown through all the normal milestones and seem to be cutting it really close this year, which seems to imply bigger changes than Todd originally let on. No problem. You guys have some pretty complex issues to work out and I'm all for taking your time and getting it right.

 

But.... Our 2013 season begins in 44 days and we have a LOT of new guys finishing builds, trying to get tech done before the race, trying to get annual dynos done before the race, etc. Myself included. I'm actually doing my dyno cert THIS weekend as it's the only free weekend I have before the race. If we can't get the rules posted anytime soon, could one of the directors at least give some guidance as to what's on the table and let us make some educated guesses to finish getting our cars ready?

 

AI #29

Texas

 

Casey, this has been elevated... Please bear with us. We are trying our best to get a commitment on a date for the rules.

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Casey, this has been elevated... Please bear with us. We are trying our best to get a commitment on a date for the rules.

 

Understood. Thanks Marshall.

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