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2013 Rules Change Requests (RCRs)


tacovini

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robbodleimages
there has been ZERO discussion at the director level of a "Spec S197" class.

 

the first i heard about it was al fernandez posting the new cmc rules that are not happy for s197 drivers. its not the only times i've heard about it but it was the first time.

 

i wouldnt just make it up

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there has been ZERO discussion at the director level of a "Spec S197" class.

 

the first i heard about it was al fernandez posting the new cmc rules

I think we are mixing up CMC and AI class discussions. I have heard the same speculation about CMC splitting. My team mate is an AI series director and he assures us there is NO discussion of splitting AI.

 

j

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I think I can add some light on this discussion!!!

 

Light-Bulbs--27640.jpg

 

First off...don't fret. As we mentioned before, this year is about rules stabilization. Minimal change!

I tend to agree with all the posts in this thread, including Dean's and Will's. The GMs are strong and "right there"...and the Ford Racing design/support sure is dandy.

With that said, we are still keen to an S197 advantage (whether real or perceived). If there are any changes to further equalize the cars, it will be minimal, but a very real possibility. In general, we prefer to HELP the slower cars than to HURT the faster cars...but we need to look at the whole picture, and think long term. Small tweaks year on year to achieve better parity can only help the series, but drastic whipsaw changes one way or another can only hurt the series.

 

I will say that the pro and amateur racing circles are buzzing about GM's newfound love of road race engineering! I think the latest hardware coming from the General is every bit of competitive to the Ford Racing stuff. It is just a matter of time before the Camaro's are competitive, and then we will hear a whole different group of people making all the noise. (I saw it in CMC...and will see it in AI...trust me.)

 

So if I had to put the rules changes in 5 buckets, here's where they would be:

1) Power/Weight - The S197 seems to be doing just fine in it's current form. Another .25 here or there might help some other players.

2) Wheelbase/track - There are some new cars now which are not listed and the S197 is afforded more wheelbase than stock. An already long car doesn't need to be longer to "compete" like the others.

3) Rear Wings & diffuser language is confusing...we are going to clarify better language & pic to show the rear setback of +1.5" from the rear of the car. No change...but better wording for all you Formula SAE rules readers.

4) Dyno certification process....we previously addressed what happens ON the dyno, now there seems to be some regional inconsistencies as to what happens before or after the dyno and how that compares to taking weight. We need to align everyone on this process, and I see this as Job 1 this year.

5) Tires- no changes....we will still run on the RA1 in 2013. During the year, I'm sure various people and regions will test the new Toyo RR tire and we'll consider alternatives for 2014. If it's better, doesn't require shaving and has durability...it'll be a candidate....but we like old faithful RA1.

 

Not all inclusive, but basically that's it in a nutshell...

 

NOW...regarding this "Spec S197" or "AI Spec" or "Super CMC" or what have you. There is a lot of discussion about it behind the scenes, with various people including manufacturers. (Frankly, it comes up every year.) However, it does not affect the AI or AIX car prep rules in any way. Furthermore, if (and I mean a big IF) it were to become reality, the Boss 302 would not be eligible due to the hp and racier parts. There's no secret that CMC has a problem with newer, higher HP stock cars in it's class. Everyone loves the CMC mentality of low cost, stock engines, minimal modifications and even spec parts. The problem is that we live in a day & age where V6 rental cars make 300HP !!! It's no longer 230 or even 260hp anymore Toto...and the newer chassis's are in a league all their own....but still a ways away from any AI car on performance. So there's a gap. If the CMC spirit (no mod ponycar racing) is going to live on, NASA needs a solution. It may not be this year, it may not be next year...but we are not doing entry level ponycar racing any favors by ending it at 2005 CMC model year cars. Used modern Mustangs, Camaros and Challengers will soon be plentiful and cheap. ...but we lose that value if they all have to modify up to AI power/prep levels.

 

I know what you're thinking...."oh gawd....not another series!" I'm the first to say that I'm against new classes. For years I've always maintained "car count is king". However, if we don't look at this soon, I think our series, your ponycar racing, is missing the entry class, and CMC as we know it today will become a vintage class.

 

Bottom line...don't fret...we hope to get the rules out soonest and have fun! (If you have a specific build question, feel free to contact my cell @ 832-506-5250.)

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American Iron 1, 2, 3, 4. Been suggested before. Drop CMC and call it AI-4. Add the new base Mustang, Camaro, Challenger and call is AI-3. Same AI for AI-2, and AIX is AI-1. Done.

 

Sidney

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robbodleimages

that wont happen. i do wonder what happens when in 12 to 18 months the next platform mustang comes out with a gt standard ecoboost turbo engine as the standard plant?

 

the arguing is going to start again in ernest

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From what I seen at Road Atlanta during the Saturday Thunder race The camaro doesn't need anything more then more thought put into a build . I watched Dean Martin do everything he could to keep Will Stukas behind him. Will obviously has spent the time and money to do what he can to make that platform what it is.

 

If will would have won everyone would be crying foul on the gm platform.

 

Nobody to date has brought a car the bests the rule book except for Pat l's fox car.

 

Leave it alone this year.

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robbodleimages

steve makes a good point. that saturday race was a national championship level event. dean, bruce byerly, rich golinello, mickey remen and others. it was representative.

 

the camaro did just fine.

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From what I seen at Road Atlanta during the Saturday Thunder race The camaro doesn't need anything more then more thought put into a build . I watched Dean Martin do everything he could to keep Will Stukas behind him. Will obviously has spent the time and money to do what he can to make that platform what it is.

 

If will would have won everyone would be crying foul on the gm platform.

 

Nobody to date has brought a car the bests the rule book except for Pat l's fox car.

 

Leave it alone this year.

 

I could not agree more, Steve; leave the rules alone for now. That was a great race with Dean, and possibly the most fun I've had in that car.

 

For what it's worth, I am more than willing to duplicate any/all of the one off parts on my car for other F body's in AI. We are building essentially a duplicate right now out of Allen Thornton's Camaro; and a third for a customer who will be doing comp school next year.

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For what it's worth, I am more than willing to duplicate any/all of the one off parts on my car for other F body's in AI. We are building essentially a duplicate right now out of Allen Thornton's Camaro; and a third for a customer who will be doing comp school next year.

 

Price on a set of the front hubs? would prefer to keep abs but 4th gen hubs suck but square tires might actually be cheaper than constant hub replacement.

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For what it's worth, I am more than willing to duplicate any/all of the one off parts on my car for other F body's in AI. We are building essentially a duplicate right now out of Allen Thornton's Camaro; and a third for a customer who will be doing comp school next year.

 

Price on a set of the front hubs? would prefer to keep abs but 4th gen hubs suck but square tires might actually be cheaper than constant hub replacement.

 

I run stockers from pull-a-part...$7 a pop.

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I helped out on that project, donated some CNC time for the prototype and made a proper manufacturing drawing. But I never got around to making a set for my car. I've just been changing out stockers.

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BigKeyserSoze

I run an old fox body, so I'm not too concerned about winning, and everyone thinks I'm cheating anyhow because I can get it to run almost in the front, so the rules don't really matter, but still. It would be nice to have a copy.

 

Plus, whining to piss Covini off is kind of fun, since the insane dashboard rule is his baby anyhow.

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I run an old fox body, so I'm not too concerned about winning, and everyone thinks I'm cheating anyhow because I can get it to run almost in the front, so the rules don't really matter, but still. It would be nice to have a copy.

 

Plus, whining to pee-piddily-diddily Covini off is kind of fun, since the insane dashboard rule is his baby anyhow.

 

I noticed your sig, what class and car number do you run.

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I run an old fox body, so I'm not too concerned about winning,

HEY! I run a Fox too. And I was on the pole for 60% of the races this season and won 40% of them. Would have won 2 more except crap kept falling off the 20 year old dog and I got meatball flagged out of the lead.

 

j

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BigKeyserSoze

Yes, the three championships were in my Factory Five Roadster, #64. I also ran the #985 Spec E30 for a few years in Florida and the Southeast, but just sold it. I had the #908 Thunder Roadster for a while, and just sold that, too. I still have the #311 Spec Miata, which runs with NASA and SCCA. I also wheel a circle track bomber locally.

 

I don't think my Fox AI car is competitive in a national field, I could only get 5th in Road Atlanta and I was driving it pretty hard. The car is new to me, and it needs a little more development, and I need a little more time in the seat. Maybe in time I can move up the field.

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marshallmosty

Guys,

We are getting close. We have a rough draft in hand... I apologize for the entire leadership committee on the delay in getting this out. It's been out of our control, literally.

 

Rough cut is all S197's are at 3500lbs minimum and 12:1 HP/TQ. It was the only way we could get the other platforms on a level playing field. And they are on R888's as a spec tire.

Kidding...

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