porkchops22 Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Hello everyone, I am Kevyn Kistner, a racer starting to build my first HC car. I am aiming to enter into the ranks of H4 in the great lakes region and see how I do. I have some formal instruction under my belt and 9 endurance races completed over the past 3 years. I just wanted to introduce myself and hopefully can have this car ready for spring. This is what she looks like now. I am hoping to be ready for the 2013 season but time and money will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedengineer Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Welcome! I am also in the GL region, maybe I'll see you around next season. FYI, the MW/GL region has a decent number of H2 cars, but most unfortunately does not currently have any cars running the other HC classes, so you may want to consider building your car to H2 instead of H4. -Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porkchops22 Posted October 14, 2012 Author Share Posted October 14, 2012 What is a typical turnout for each class? I can build into the H2 class but I was hoping to start in the more budget friendly H4. At what point to they determine not enough entries to run a particular class? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterswarts Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 There is never a time that you can't run H4. In 2009, I went to every mid atlantic event and only had 1 time that there was more then just me in H2. And to make things more interesting, my H2 setup had always been underpowered (20hp down) and somehow I came in 3rd regionally in the NorthEast in 2009. Nasa will always run whatever class you sign up for. You just may not have anyone to run with. I would start with weight focus on the car. Get it down to min weight. That in itself will help compensate for the lack of HP. See how it runs and then decide from there what money you want to spend. A valve job (about $1k) with a good header ($300-$500) will yield the biggest gains IMO. My H2 motor still does not have these but if it did, that would be the 20HP I'm missing. But since I'm running H1 now, that motor won't see any more work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HondaRob Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 There is talk of a few of us bringing out some H4 cars for the 2013 season in NASA GL. I would touch base with Sam Myers, our regions HC Director, for more info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HondaRob Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Nice looking start for your H4 build Hope to see you out there with us in April Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedengineer Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 On the NASA GL website under "results" you can see all the results for all the drivers who competed this season. Obviously this also tells you how many competed in each class. The was 1 H1 participant (me...) There were 9 H2 participants. There were no other entries in any of the other HC classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porkchops22 Posted October 15, 2012 Author Share Posted October 15, 2012 There is talk of a few of us bringing out some H4 cars for the 2013 season in NASA GL. I would touch base with Sam Myers, our regions HC Director, for more info Sam is actually who planted the H4 bug in my ear. LOL. I think prepping the chassis is where I need to start. Any other advice? Suspension setups to use? Anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HondaRob Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Sam would have the best advice on set-up, as he has built several Honda Road Course cars, but Im thinking Koni yellows, a set of H&R or Eibach coils, a rear bar of some sort, Hawk Blues up front, etc.. Don't forget the basics either: Brake hoses - Braided DOT5 fluid - such as MOTUL Wheel Bearings and suspension bushing checkover/replacement If the above was obvious, I apologize. Sam has the Honda formula down and knows every possible combo, alignment set-up, what works and what doesn't, where to source parts etc... My Integra I ran in TTE last year will most likely end up as an H4 car in 2013. It was built with H2 in mind, but is a little heavy and still stock under the hood. H4 is looking like a better plan for my experience in the seat and the overall budget for next year. It will be an easy decision to do H4 for me if there are atleast a few guys to run with. I plan to do comp school in April and run as many NASA GL events as I can next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porkchops22 Posted October 15, 2012 Author Share Posted October 15, 2012 Sam would have the best advice on set-up, as he has built several Honda Road Course cars, but Im thinking Koni yellows, a set of H&R or Eibach coils, a rear bar of some sort, Hawk Blues up front, etc.. Don't forget the basics either: Brake hoses - Braided DOT5 fluid - such as MOTUL Wheel Bearings and suspension bushing checkover/replacement If the above was obvious, I apologize. Obvious or not it is always good to have a reminder. I think I may look into something a little more adjustable on the suspension to help with corner weighting down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Welcome! Don't be scared to build for H4 and run in H2 if that's what everyone else in the region runs. I built my Integra for TTE/PTE. Once I did a few races and whooped up on SM/PTE Miatas and 944Spec cars in our "Small Bore" group, a bunch of my friends decided to build H2 cars. 1 year later I haven't changed a thing but I've had 2 poles and 1 win in H2. 136whp! I get murdered on big tracks but have the experience and setup to do really well on our small tracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porkchops22 Posted October 15, 2012 Author Share Posted October 15, 2012 that is the plan. Try to get the chassis down to under 2000 lbs then run ballast in H4. If I need to go to H2 then at least I have the option of pulling out the weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmeris Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 A valve job (about $1k) with a good header ($300-$500) I think you have the $$$ figures mixed up. A valve job should NEVER cost THAT MUCH......and a good header will be upwards of $500-$1300. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porkchops22 Posted October 15, 2012 Author Share Posted October 15, 2012 A valve job (about $1k) with a good header ($300-$500) I think you have the $$$ figures mixed up. A valve job should NEVER cost THAT MUCH......and a good header will be upwards of $500-$1300. I was letting slide thinking maybe he was completely rebuilding the head with new valves, springs, retainers...etc. Then on top of that a valve job. LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H4CRXSi Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Kevyn, Please remember while doing your chassis prep that only the items listed in Sections 1-8 are allowed for a H4 build. The items listed in Section 9 are for H1 builds and supersede all others, just the same as the items listed in Section 10 are for H2 builds and supersede all others. Please note that items allowed in Sections 9 and/or 10 will not be allowed for a H4 build unless permitted in Section 7 or 8. Looking forward to seeing you on track in H4 in 2013. With my CRX, your EG hatch and Rob's Integra, that is a good start to getting H4 out of the cellar and going again in the GL Region. I'm working on a few others to come play as well! Regards, Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H4CRXSi Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 A valve job (about $1k) with a good header ($300-$500) I think you have the $$$ figures mixed up. A valve job should NEVER cost THAT MUCH......and a good header will be upwards of $500-$1300. I was letting slide thinking maybe he was completely rebuilding the head with new valves, springs, retainers...etc. Then on top of that a valve job. LOL. Yes, a good valve job for a D-series motor will be in the $500-$600 range, and having seen dyno graphs of all the various headers tested back-to-back, there is no reason not to go with a DC 4-1 which you can find most places for less than $350. I've seen plenty of D-series cars running on a cheap $55 eBay 4-2-1 header and only be down a few HP versus the others. Just my $.02. Regards, Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porkchops22 Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 Kevyn, Please remember while doing your chassis prep that only the items listed in Sections 1-8 are allowed for a H4 build. The items listed in Section 9 are for H1 builds and supersede all others, just the same as the items listed in Section 10 are for H2 builds and supersede all others. Please note that items allowed in Sections 9 and/or 10 will not be allowed for a H4 build unless permitted in Section 7 or 8. Looking forward to seeing you on track in H4 in 2013. With my CRX, your EG hatch and Rob's Integra, that is a good start to getting H4 out of the cellar and going again in the GL Region. I'm working on a few others to come play as well! Regards, Sam Thanks Sam for helping get a grasp on this rule book. I don't want to be that guy that comes out to play and gets DQ'd for running something i shouldn't have been running. That is also why I am asking so many stupid questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H4CRXSi Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Kevyn, The only stupid question is the one that doesn't get asked. There were plenty of others that helped me learn what was legal and what was not back when I first got started, so please keep asking questions and I'll do my best to answer them...as SD for your Region that is what I'm here for. Regards, Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porkchops22 Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 What is everyone's LSD of choice and what final drive ration am I allowed to run? I am pretty sure stock is 4.250 but I have seen other options out there as well. Also in the brake system are calipers allowed to be upgraded as long as I stick with the OE Rotor size? As long as the rotor is the same as OE size can it be slotted Like the USR Series of rotors offered by EBC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HondaRob Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I am running a Quaife, but the MFactory plate LSD is cheaper and a better unit for Road Course Racing, from what I hear. I have a 4.9 final drive that I got from Synchrotech out west. I believe in H4, you have to keep the stock caliper and rotor, but I am guessing a slotted rotor in stock size might be permissable. When it comes time to build the internals for your trans, see Sam or Mista Bone for help. Both (especially Bone) are very familiar with the D-Series trans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porkchops22 Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 I am running a Quaife, but the MFactory plate LSD is cheaper and a better unit for Road Course Racing, from what I hear. I have a 4.9 final drive that I got from Synchrotech out west. I believe in H4, you have to keep the stock caliper and rotor, but I am guessing a slotted rotor in stock size might be permissable. When it comes time to build the internals for your trans, see Sam or Mista Bone for help. Both (especially Bone) are very familiar with the D-Series trans In Rule 7.8 it does state that rotors/drums "must be the same type, material, and dimensions as OEM. I guess I am questioning the intent of the word "type" There isn't anything that pertains to the caliper; however I plan to run OEM calipers anyways. I do plan to get with Sam or Mista Bone and have my tranny rebuilt. Can someone enlighten me as to the difference in the LSD's and why the plate system would be better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I'm versed in D-Series trans as well. Learned everything I know about them from Mista Bone via d-series.org. For H4, AFAIK, you MUST retain stock calipers and gearing. FD is open. As someone that switched from an ITR LSD to an MFactory metal plate LSD, I can say there is a night and day difference. Between how quickly the limited slip action happens, how agressive it is, and how I was able to change my suspension setup, it has made my car faster and myself a better driver/racer. It is not something I can describe through words. It is much easier to just drive the two back-to-back and see for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZELISE Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 As someone that switched from an ITR LSD to an MFactory metal plate LSD, I can say there is a night and day difference. Between how quickly the limited slip action happens, how agressive it is, and how I was able to change my suspension setup, it has made my car faster and myself a better driver/racer. It is not something I can describe through words. It is much easier to just drive the two back-to-back and see for yourself. As someone who switched from a D series transmission with a plate type diff to an ITR LSD, I had the opposite experience. I will switch to a plate type diff as soon as I have the $$$$. If you drive the car on the street more than just to/from the track, a Torsen/Quaife might be better for wear and tear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porkchops22 Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 Not really sure I am going to be able to get this thing built in time for spring. Just hit a major road block with my engine at the machine shop. May have to slow this build down. (stupid cars) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockeracing976 Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Welcome Kevyn! Not to burst anyone's bubble (Sam and Rob)... All the cool kids run H2... Just saying!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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