robbodleimages Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 just making sure that i understand. there is no weight penalty for autocross compound over r compound tires(a6-r6). is that correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Yep, anything from a Toyo RA1 to a Hoosier A or BFG R1S is all under the same category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 i guess that seems kind of odd. everybody knows the difference in speed between an A and R compound tire. thats an easy advantage that only takes the bank account to afford it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Welcome to ST. Be happy there's a distinction between DOTs and Non-DOTs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Be happy there's a distinction between DOTs and Non-DOTs. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Could be worse, look at how open the SU rules really are - just about anything goes as long as it'll pass a logbook inspection ST is definitely a good step down from that, but still a very open ruleset. Is what it is - there's PT if you want to step into a more limited mods type class... etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I don't understand why there are any tire mod factors. It's not like ST is a cost saving exercise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 If I had to rank the classes in order of most expensive to prep to the maximum and operate within down to least expensive 1.) SU 2a) GTS and 2b) ST1 & 2 2.5) ST3 3.) AI (soley because of Toyos, otherwise put it between GTS, ST1, ST2 and ST3 somewhere) 4.) HC 5.) Higher PT classes (could put some ahead of HC, or not. H1 looks pricey but not H4. Tough call) 6.) CMC 7.) Lower PT classes 8+ Spec Classes go here, Maybe with Spec 350Z slotting in higher than #8 somewhere, and other Spec stuff ahead of PTF, but nobody cares about PTF anymore besides me it seems. Again, is what it is - pick something that matches your budget. Much easier to move classes, cars, whatever than it is to try and get eleventy-brazillion rule changes to make ClassX fit exactly how you want to race. Esp since most likely everyone else in ClassX does not want eleventy-brazillion rule changes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 AIX should be up by ST HC4 is a lot cheaper than HC1 If we're talking Nationally Competitive Spec Miata, it should be up by higher PT classes lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Double Post Whoreness: It's really slow at work and I love lists so let's come up with one, class-by-class! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Went on more of I guess a division basis, but a class-by-class would be cool. Go for it! And good point on AIX, yeah... see also: the rumored 1,000+whp 190mph+ beast running around Road America so fast it made the spec windshield banner peel off... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 (edited) 1.) SU 2.) GTS5 3.) ST1 4.) ST2 5.) GTS4 6.) AIX 7.) ST3 8.) GTS3 9.) AI 10.) HC1 11.) PTB 12.) PTC 13.) HC2 14.) SpecZ 15.) FFR 16.) CMC 17.) PTD 18.) 986Spec 19.) HC4 20.) PTE 21.) SM 22.) Spec3 23.) SpecE30 24.) 944Spec 25.) PTF Edited October 19, 2012 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Spec986 is stronger than PTA was, doubtful unless you've got a better source of info than I do FFR used to be kinda around CMC-sorta cheap, but with the new heads/cam/intake upgrades I'm not so sure... CMC2 doesn't exist anymore, CMC has been re-unified up at CMC-2 specs all this season at least if not longer. You forgot SpecE30 - should be clustered with 944-Spec behind Spec-3 imho. I'd have AI ahead of HC1 for sure, maybe even ahead of ST3 but maybe not because Toyo. And PTF should be last I think, buy-in is *very* low. Only expensive thing is maybe a steady diet of Hoosiers. Just my $0.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 I don't understand why there are any tire mod factors. It's not like ST is a cost saving exercise. it would follow then that you could ask there there are any mod factors in st? right? they are trying to manage the race cars performance package to create a race. competition. so, i am not allowed to spend money on a wing to increase my handling or i have to pay a mod factor penalty but i can pickup 2 seconds a lap in handling and braking by running A compound tires. st is effectively an A compound series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 The aero portion only exists for ST3 first off. And yep, that's what it is until someone creates a better DOT tire. Everyone that currently runs the class is for the most part ok with that, so good luck getting it changed. Most ST cars in my region are split about 50/50 between DOTs and non-DOTs fwiw, some with non-DOTs that can make up for the ratio hit with extra grip and also go for a couple more cycles than a Hoosier A, some not, etc. Haven't see someone try the BFG R1S yet, that might be a better speed/price/longevity tire without giving up the ratio hit or really much if any outright speed to the Hoosier A. But yes, its an open tire class and that means you'd better be on the best tire or be happy with 2nd or worse. Again, it is what it is. Rob, no offense but it might be smarter to take a step back and evaluate your equipment, budget, etc and find a class that currently matches up better to those factors instead of trying to get a class or division to change to your current whims and situation. I think you'll continue to find frustration if you continue to keep trying to get whatever the division or class of the week is to change to your situation since by-and-large the people that were there before you and run there currently are happy with the current situation and don't want to see much if any deviation from that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I don't understand why there are any tire mod factors. without them, it's just SU-lite... well, more SU-lite than it currently is anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 ken, i am content on tires. that doesnt mean that i cant see something in the rules that seems inconsistant with the overall rules set and say something. i dont mind racing on r compounds v guys on a's. i just hope for longer races and fewer full course yellows. i just find it inconsistant to mod factor a basic handling aid while letting another basic handling aid be free. your apparant attitude in first answering the question seems to indicate that you feel the same way. btw....go on harrassing me about my racing budget. you could talk me into quitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Sorry for calling you on the "I want to make every class to conform to me" deal or at least what you keep saying seems to come across like that anyway. My bad. I apologize. Again, welcome to ST - it's not quite the wild-wild west but it's close. It's not for everybody. But I do love watching some of the great examples of this class and its TT version pound around the track, definitely some crazy cool machinery The slight mod factors get the pack a little closer, but it's not supposed to be Spec class close and thus never will be. There are a couple lines I wouldn't draw in quite the same places for this set but I think anyone could say that about any class that has ever existed, exists currently, or will exist in the future. "Pick your frog, live with the warts" also applies to the club, divsion, and class you choose just as well as it applies to the vehicle you choose to compete with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 all the scca racing i do is dot tires are free racing. but none of those classes pay penalty factors. if you are to penalize me for tire size, why not control the compound as well? its the same thing. i am in a position where i can race A compound when its necessary. i am also willing to race on R compound tires that have 15+ heat cycles on them as i did at vir this past weekend. its just an idea, but it might be fun to require teams/drivers to run at least one race in a double race weekend on the R compound. indycar racing and i believe v8 supercars race on multi compounds and require time on the harder compound. its becomes strategy. as for the class, i am more concerned with the tta track record of 2:01 that was cut at vir this weekend on 245 tires with room to improve. i recognize that qualifying and racing are different and tt is qualifying with lots of shots at it. but....is 2:00 flat or less the kind of speed that was expected in st3? haha....if thats the price of poker next season, i need to get digging Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 You'll need a turbo civic if you hope to hang with those kind of times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 ...is 2:00 flat or less the kind of speed that was expected in st3? Less Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperkins Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 ...is 2:00 flat or less the kind of speed that was expected in st3? Less Can't wait to watch you guys go for broke in TT3. You're all crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 The split for DOT vs Non-DOT works for ST and TT equivalent. Most do not want to see a change. I sure do not want to see a mutli compound rule! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 why not? we all know how much faster the A compound is than the R. In TT with good class turnout, the R compound car is at a significant disadvantage. Same and even moreso for the racer. The current rule defacto requires use of A compound tires in order to compete. I am suggesting that it is a car count limiting factor. Are we trying to sell A compound tires for Hoosier? Please dont read accusation in my words. I dont mind an open tire rule. I just recognize what it means. In this case if you want to win, you can't run on R compound tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 tire costs are around 6th or 7th on the list of things that make it expensive to win in ST_ or is this another "How Rob wants to form a class where new Mustangs can run on inexpensive year-old Hoosier R tires and beat everything else" type thread/response/etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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