tstiles Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I'm thinking about moving over to NASA TT after racing with SCCA ( STL,ITA,SM,SRF,FC ) for many years. I just sold my race car and moved to a smaller house with tiny garage. I would prefer to have a " drive to the track / dual purpose " car Are there cars / classes that are competitive when you just slap on a set of NT01's and drive the snot out of it ? ... What about coilovers / sways / NT01's ? My initial impression is that an S2000 or BRZ might be a good starting point , but participation is Texas looks like it's hit or miss until you get to TTB and above. Thoughts ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 TTE and TTC have been growing alot this season in TX. Probably the biggest growth of any classes actually... TTB is something to look at as well, though its actually been dropping off slightly - people are scared of Ken O's M3 I guess. (actually it's been "life" getting in the way of track stuff for some regulars) TTD has started to pick up some but still needs a solid "regular" or two to anchor the class and get more people coming out for that class. It's close though! The most regular attendee has been myself in the "backup" car (fiance's RX8), but we're starting to get some instructors with TTD E36M3s show up on a more regular basis as well so it's another one that's close. I would definitely try and stay in the "points" classes (TTB and below) if I wanted a "drive to the track, compete, and drive home" car though for sure. Old TTS, U, R and also TTA will be converting over to pretty wide open "just meet the hp/weight math" type classes next year (TT3 @ 9.0/9.5, TT2 @ 8.0, TT1 @ 5.5, and TTU unlimited) and I'd think about steering clear of those without a truck/trailer/etc. Even in the points-classes you may be leaving a little bit on the table depending on how many street comforts you wish to retain, but at the regional level a good driver can overcome a little bit of extra weight, little bit too soft a spring, etc. If it were me looking to start from a clean sheet of paper - and just my opinions on what I like to drive and what could do well enough I think: TTB - E46M3 TTC - S2000 *if* you can find an OEM shape hardtop to go with it TTD - RX8 TTE - Miata TTF - Mk2 MR2, duh! I'm sure other's opinions will differ, but anywho... Glad to have you out whenever you're able to make it - Ken Brewer One of the NASA-TX Time Trial Directors... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yakisoba Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I think TTE is a really good class to get into now. The Miata field is always challenging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) Competititive versus podium. The level of prep for all classes make it a challenge to podium a stock.car anymore. Edited October 25, 2012 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 E36 M3 in TTD would get my vote. A local hot shoe ringer driver, Brady, did minimal mods to his yellow '97 and ran shaved Dunlop Star Specs. He would get one hell of a flyer lap in that car. Only TTD/PTD car to ever do a sub-1:10 at Phoenix International Raceway...forever! (since we can't run there anymore ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tstiles Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 Thanks for the feedback guys. Ken , I would love to pick up an RX8 , but all I hear are reliability nightmares. I've had a couple of S2000's , they are great cars , I could make a worse choice. E36 , I keep going back and forth , I know some guys have spent significant bucks trying to keep them going. Too bad I can't fit a bone stock C5 Z06 into TTB , I've got a buddy with one with seats / rollbar and says come get it and use it up. Nobody has any feedback on the BRZ/FRS ? ... I drove one at MSRH about a month ago and was very impressed ... Very miatalike I just sold my ITA prep 95 miata and I'm looking for something different for a dual purpose car Anybody have any thoughts on an NC MX5 Miata with coilovers / sways ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I instructed a FRS last Friday and it was a decent little car. One ran at nationals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tstiles Posted October 26, 2012 Author Share Posted October 26, 2012 I just pulled the 2012 participation numbers for Texas region. - TTA = 4.2 car avg - TTB = 3.5 car avg - TTC = 1.8 car avg - TTD = .8 car avg - TTE = 3.8 car avg Based on these numbers and assuming dual purpose car with , safety , coilovers , sways , NT01's : - TT3 with a stock C5 Z06 ... Not sure if this will be competitive - TTB ... Have not found a car that meets my budget - TTC ... S2000 , but the participation is light - TTD ... BRZ/FRS or E36 , but the participation is light - TTE ... NC Miata with 225 tire and a bit extra weight What have I missed ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 TT3 with a TTA prep C5Z (which is still not stock, but somewhat close comparitavely) might do ok for a season as people build to the new limits of the class but will probably only win a season championship by making all the events vs being dominant. If you have C5Z06 budget wouldn't that cover E46 M3s as well? For TTE if it were my money I'd look for a nice solid NB, add 205 Hoosiers on 15x8 or 9s, and go from there. Haven't seen many NCs across the country yet on track but that could be a buy-in cost type thing. RX8s - it's all about keeping them cool and full on oil at this point. Pre-mix a little oil in the gas too if you want extra insurance. That chassis is so easy and rewarding to drive it's not even funny. Ran a 2:05 on TWS 2.9 CW in my fiance's RX8 R3 100% stock down to the brakes & tires with one hand on the wheel while I picked my nose easy-to-drive. Most of the horror storries can be traced to 'tards that barely can take care of a Camry, nevermind handle the quirks inherent in the doritios-on-a-stick engine. If you want to get some feedback from people more like yourself that are capable of handling and maintaining a track car, I can point you towards some stuff to read on RX8club (shopping guide, care & feeding guides from actual enthusiasts, etc). PM me if you want it The bad reputation thing is great for low buy-in costs... My points sheet has (class - 2012, 2011 & notes) fwiw. TTA - 3.83, 7.86 (TTA Okies stopped travelling, and some Evos moved up to TTS) How this will look as TT3? Not sure. TTB - 3.42, 3.14 (some growth, some dropping off due to life events for steady-ish #s overall) TTC - 2.17, 1.07 (good growth, nearly to 3+ every event even with a regular blowing up an engine and sitting out since May) TTD - 1.08, 0.79 (starting to catch on this season with instructors in TTD cars as we were way under 1 avg early this year) TTE - 3.50, 2.07 (pretty good growth here, good core of regulars at each event) TTF - 0.58, 0.14 (man was I a slacker about getting TT sessions in 2011, 2012 has been some spotty car issues) Note these are averages, with most typical turnouts being higher. A zero for a day or two can really tank that number... I've been directing with SE for a while before I moved to TX in 2009, so I've been doing this TT-director gig for a while. In my experience, once you can scratch and claw to get one of these classes to 2-3 steady regulars that run the whole season, it will start to grow easily on its own from there. Think about your perspective right now - you're interested in a couple different cars that fit different classes and will probably go with the biggest class right? Well how did that class get to those #s in the first place? Good example is TTE, it had been around 1.0 to 1.5 for a couple years until we hit 2.0s or better by adding one more steady regular on top of the mix of people who do a couple events here & there each year but not the whole season. Now the next person to hop in starts to put the class close to #s for contingency prizes and all that which makes it easier to commit to the season and convert the couple-event type people and/or attract new recruits, and soon we're hitting on a good weekend 5-6 TTE people, off weekend 2-3ish. (Also, don't take the above as discriminatory/deragatory towards regulars OR those that can only make a couple events here & there - happy to have people out as often as they're able. Even if you car is broken and you just want to hang out - please do!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troyguitar Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 I won TTD both days at Watkins Glen in my 2012 VW GTI with a stage 1 ECU tune, Hankook RS-3 street tires, and Porterfield R4 brake pads. Without the ECU tune it would run TTE. Drove it to the track, emptied everything out of it, swapped out the brakes and wheels, ran all weekend, then swapped them back and drove home. The bonus to a car like the GTI is you can carry a set of wheels and tires plus a decent amount of tools and parts, and even camp in it if you're crazy like me. Next year I'm planning to start doing more extensive mods since I have 33 points still available to me before bumping up to TTC - I'd say there is plenty of room to be competitive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 as it's said before: it's going to vary depending on region, class, and driver as to how unprepared a vehicle can be and still win against the field. Same as any other form of competition that's out there really... I think for the OP, when asking about Texas, and asking about TTB-F, milder prep can get it done if the driver is great though we do have some pretty great amateurs and a professional or two lurking in those classes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tstiles Posted October 30, 2012 Author Share Posted October 30, 2012 I think I'm going to do an NC Miata for TTE , pretty simple ( and cost effective ) build ... Now I just need to find an acceptable roll bar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Look at the BossFrog Double Hoop bar. I just put one of these in our NB Miata and I have nothing but good things to say about it. The workmanship is top notch, the directions were excellent, and the packaging was superb. This is the only rollbar out of the three I have installed in various cars that was not beat to to hell when I got it and did not need a paint job before installing. This is also the only rollbar I could find that had actual crash testing performed and they claim SCCA approval. So I "assume" NASA compliance as well. http://www.bossfrog.biz/Miata_Rollbars.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Those 2-piece designs sketch me out, but it won't be my butt in the seat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tstiles Posted October 30, 2012 Author Share Posted October 30, 2012 The soft top will be coming out and a hardtop will be going on. This will allow me to install a proper roll bar with rearward braces to prevent a potential mousetrap failure The only one I've found that does this is from Blackbird Fabworks , but I can't get ahold of them for some reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troyguitar Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Are you going to drive to the track and back on R-comps? I don't even like running the RS-3's on the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tstiles Posted October 30, 2012 Author Share Posted October 30, 2012 Tire trailer does the trick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 The Rollbar I linked has proper rear diagonals and a saddle brace over the trans hump. There are six points of attachment to the car. The rear bars are also correctly positioned diagonally away from the fuel tank. Your choice and preferences may vary. This was the only one I like enough to put in the car my teenage daughters will be driving at the track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tstiles Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 The Rollbar I linked has proper rear diagonals and a saddle brace over the trans hump. There are six points of attachment to the car. The rear bars are also correctly positioned diagonally away from the fuel tank. Your choice and preferences may vary. This was the only one I like enough to put in the car my teenage daughters will be driving at the track. Thanks for the input ... Looks like the link only has bars for the 90-05 miata , I'm building an 06+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 The Rollbar I linked has proper rear diagonals and a saddle brace over the trans hump. There are six points of attachment to the car. The rear bars are also correctly positioned diagonally away from the fuel tank. Your choice and preferences may vary. This was the only one I like enough to put in the car my teenage daughters will be driving at the track. Thanks for the input ... Looks like the link only has bars for the 90-05 miata , I'm building an 06+ Gotcha, I did not catch that in your post. You are correct, there are very limited options for an NC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfpint Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 How do you think you'll spend your points? I have an NC and debating to build it for TTE or D or going with an NA/NB for TTE. I think I'm going to do an NC Miata for TTE , pretty simple ( and cost effective ) build ... Now I just need to find an acceptable roll bar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tstiles Posted November 19, 2012 Author Share Posted November 19, 2012 How do you think you'll spend your points? I have an NC and debating to build it for TTE or D or going with an NA/NB for TTE. I think I'm going to do an NC Miata for TTE , pretty simple ( and cost effective ) build ... Now I just need to find an acceptable roll bar From memory it was a pretty simple deal ... Coilovers / Sways / NT01's / Can't remember what size ... I'll leave drivetrain for another time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottBell Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Star specs and coilovers on a Lotus Elise in C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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