Grintch Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 I have a WRX STI that was prepared to the Solo STU rules. I am thinking of throwing some R coumpounds on it and doing a few TT's on it in TTB. I am right on the points limit for TTB so depending on what tire compount/type I run, I will need to give up some width. So the question becomes where to speend the points, stickier tire or wider tire? My current plan is to run Nitto NT01's (+7) in a 245mm width (-4, STU limits me to 245mm anyway so my wheels & clearance is already set up for that width). But if I gave up just another 10mm in tire width (e.g. run a 235 at -7), I could run Hoosier R6's (+10). Which combination would be faster? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 compound trumps width Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 compound trumps width Every single day, every single time. For Time Trials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Wheel width is a factor to consider also Hoosiers and r-comps in general tend to be physically much wider than their printed size indicates so it may be smart to go in the 225-235 range if your clearances are setup for 245 streets. Plus you will likely generate a little more roll which may make those clearances even tighter If it were me, I'd do the 235 Hoosiers probably Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clydesdale Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 All well and good, but Hoosier doesn't make a 235. The 225 A6 would be you're next choice. Even the 225 R6 is probably faster that the 245 NT01, but that's just my opinion as I've never used the Nitto. With a 2007 or earlier STI my opinion on the peak setup in TTB is this: FI +5 Hoosier R6 +10 245's (265 base) -4 Exhaust +2 Cats +1 non-oem struts +3 (non-inverted AST 4100's) non-oem springs +2 That's the only configuration that seems to be close to the front runners and requires 100+ octane and an aggressive tune. If you want a more candid opinion send me a PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomn29 Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 All well and good, but Hoosier doesn't make a 235. The 225 A6 would be you're next choice. Even the 225 R6 is probably faster that the 245 NT01, but that's just my opinion as I've never used the Nitto. With a 2007 or earlier STI my opinion on the peak setup in TTB is this: FI +5 Hoosier R6 +10 245's (265 base) -4 Exhaust +2 Cats +1 non-oem struts +3 (non-inverted AST 4100's) non-oem springs +2 That's the only configuration that seems to be close to the front runners and requires 100+ octane and an aggressive tune. If you want a more candid opinion send me a PM. Agreed. That was my basic setup for TTB in my Evo - and I've still got records out there to prove it was fast. I was tuned on 93 octane back then; but I'm sure technology is better now - plus reflashes are 0 pts mods where they used to be 10pts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 technically its +0 for NA, and the built-in +5 for FI... Sounds like a pretty smart mod list, esp if you can't get good enough reclass #s back to make it worth freeing up +5 pts from the FI reflash by going that route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z06tracker Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 I agree. I have run NT 01's in a 315 and they are not as sticky as an A6 in a 245. compound trumps width Every single day, every single time. For Time Trials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grintch Posted October 30, 2012 Author Share Posted October 30, 2012 All well and good, but Hoosier doesn't make a 235. The 225 A6 would be you're next choice. Even the 225 R6 is probably faster that the 245 NT01, but that's just my opinion as I've never used the Nitto. With a 2007 or earlier STI my opinion on the peak setup in TTB is this: FI +5 Hoosier R6 +10 245's (265 base) -4 Exhaust +2 Cats +1 non-oem struts +3 (non-inverted AST 4100's) non-oem springs +2 That's the only configuration that seems to be close to the front runners and requires 100+ octane and an aggressive tune. If you want a more candid opinion send me a PM. Thanks for the feedback. My problem is I have the KW Variant 3 coilovers, which because they have a piggy back resivour are +7. Plus anti-roll bars, & intake (again, based on STU rules). The +5 for forced induction "not classed by TT director based on dyno results" I thought went away as soon as you provided dyno results? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 All well and good, but Hoosier doesn't make a 235. The 225 A6 would be you're next choice. Even the 225 R6 is probably faster that the 245 NT01, but that's just my opinion as I've never used the Nitto. With a 2007 or earlier STI my opinion on the peak setup in TTB is this: FI +5 Hoosier R6 +10 245's (265 base) -4 Exhaust +2 Cats +1 non-oem struts +3 (non-inverted AST 4100's) non-oem springs +2 That's the only configuration that seems to be close to the front runners and requires 100+ octane and an aggressive tune. If you want a more candid opinion send me a PM. Thanks for the feedback. My problem is I have the KW Variant 3 coilovers, which because they have a piggy back resivour are +7. Plus anti-roll bars, & intake (again, based on STU rules). The +5 for forced induction "not classed by TT director based on dyno results" I thought went away as soon as you provided dyno results? Nope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grintch Posted October 31, 2012 Author Share Posted October 31, 2012 The +5 for forced induction "not classed by TT director based on dyno results" I thought went away as soon as you provided dyno results? Nope. Then I suggest getting rid of the confusing "not classed by dyno results" statement and just make it +5 for forced induction if that is what it really is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedengineer Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 The +5 for forced induction "not classed by TT director based on dyno results" I thought went away as soon as you provided dyno results? Nope. Not true. I quote from the rulebook: FORCED INDUCTION VEHICLES will add an additional five (+5) points to the totalnumber of modification points to determine the final competition class. (Forced induction vehicles that have been classed or re-classed by the National TT Director based on Dyno testing are exempt from this additional five (+5) point assessment.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 The +5 for forced induction "not classed by TT director based on dyno results" I thought went away as soon as you provided dyno results? Nope. Not true. I quote from the rulebook: FORCED INDUCTION VEHICLES will add an additional five (+5) points to the totalnumber of modification points to determine the final competition class. (Forced induction vehicles that have been classed or re-classed by the National TT Director based on Dyno testing are exempt from this additional five (+5) point assessment.) Dyno reclass - not dyno sheet.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 he's being a little pedantic, but he is right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 It is not obscure to point out handing me a dyno sheet, properly done to the NASA standard of course, does not remove the +5 for FI. I wish since my Cruze ECO could use it. But note, Ken says I was right.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 It is not obscure to point out handing me a dyno sheet, properly done to the NASA standard of course, does not remove the +5 for FI. I wish since my Cruze ECO could use it. But note, Ken says I was right.... And he used really big Texas words, too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 damn skippy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troyguitar Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 If you're just submitting a dyno sheet to confirm that you are not illegal for the class in which your car belongs according to its base class in the rules list plus any bump from points mods, then your car is not being classed by the national director based on that dyno test - and you do not get to skip the 5 point penalty. That should be obvious. Otherwise everyone with forced induction would get dyno classed and get their 5 points back... It seems like there are very few instances where dyno classing would be beneficial just for the 5 points anyway. My car, for example, could be dyno reclassed from TTE+5 to TTD+0. I'd gain the 5 points back and another 1 point in tire width from the class change, but lose the 15 points it takes to get from TTE to TTD. Instead of being able to add 34 points and stay TTD, I'd only get 20 (counting -1 for tire size change). It's a net loss of 14 points == bad idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Depends on the power & weight you'd get to run at if it makes sense or not. If your car takes alot of point mods to add power, you may save. Worth investigating... It's also the only way to effectively get points back if you're unable/unwilling to get down to your car's listed weight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Depends on the power & weight you'd get to run at if it makes sense or not. If your car takes alot of point mods to add power, you may save. Worth investigating... It's also the only way to effectively get points back if you're unable/unwilling to get down to your car's listed weight Exactly. On top of that, you said you only get +1 point differential for tire size. True to the fact that base size difference is 1 point BUT if you're running a 225, instead of getting a 1 point credit you get a 4 point credit. That would be a 3 point swing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clydesdale Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Thanks for the feedback. My problem is I have the KW Variant 3 coilovers, which because they have a piggy back resivour are +7. Plus anti-roll bars, & intake (again, based on STU rules). The +5 for forced induction "not classed by TT director based on dyno results" I thought went away as soon as you provided dyno results? Are the KW V3 inverted? If so you take the +1 for inverted struts-- even if the OEM strut was inverted you still take the points. The online photos I found looked like they are non-inverted but models vary. I had the Ohlins Flags (piggyback and inverted) and non-oem swaybars which I sold and switched to AST4200's with oem sways just to get 7 points back that were not cutting lap times. Don't bother with the reclass unless you've done too much work on your engine or a turbo swap (required reclass). A TTB base reclass for the STI is 255hp at 3260lbs, by comparison the S2000 for the same TTB reclass is 230hp at 2610lbs. If you stick with the +5 FI that can give you maybe 320hp in an Evo and maybe 300hp in an STI which might get you close to the S2000 considering the 650lb weight differential-- maybe close enough to see his bumper on grid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedengineer Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Hehe, I feel for you Randy. That reclass on your car leaves a bit to be desired. I guess it comes down to what the benefit of awd is in lap time, and more to the point how Greg classes AWD cars differently than RWD and FWD cars. If you can't beat 'em, join em!! Hint hint...my car is for sale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grintch Posted October 31, 2012 Author Share Posted October 31, 2012 Thanks for the feedback. My problem is I have the KW Variant 3 coilovers, which because they have a piggy back resivour are +7. Plus anti-roll bars, & intake (again, based on STU rules). The +5 for forced induction "not classed by TT director based on dyno results" I thought went away as soon as you provided dyno results? Are the KW V3 inverted? If so you take the +1 for inverted struts-- even if the OEM strut was inverted you still take the points. The online photos I found looked like they are non-inverted but models vary. I had the Ohlins Flags (piggyback and inverted) and non-oem swaybars which I sold and switched to AST4200's with oem sways just to get 7 points back that were not cutting lap times. Don't bother with the reclass unless you've done too much work on your engine or a turbo swap (required reclass). A TTB base reclass for the STI is 255hp at 3260lbs, by comparison the S2000 for the same TTB reclass is 230hp at 2610lbs. If you stick with the +5 FI that can give you maybe 320hp in an Evo and maybe 300hp in an STI which might get you close to the S2000 considering the 650lb weight differential-- maybe close enough to see his bumper on grid. The KW's are not inverted, just double adjustable with piggy back reservoirs. Well if I have to take the +5 points I have major point problems, like having to run a 205mm R6 or street tires. The car is street driven and stripping is not allowed in STU, which means I am 200+ lbs over weight. I estimate the current power to weight at 11.84, which I guess means I can't get re-classed down into TTC (12:1 limit), it it possible to stay in the same base class but just lose some points with the dyno re-class? Well that 12:1 TTC limit would be an adjusted 11.15, is that enough to get me re-classed as a TTC**? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Possibly. Only one way to find out. Double and triple check your car and what your whp is and weight is and email Greg G about options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 you can ask for some options of whp, weight, and base class combos if you don't go crazy and hold 2 of the 3 variables constant. Since you seem to want to not de-mod the car I'd "back into" an acceptable base class so that when you take your modification package and intended tires into account you'd end up where you want to be in competition and then decide if you'd rather juggle weight, or juggle whp, and go from there when looking for an option or a few options from Greg HTH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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