JSG1901 Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Current rule All adjustable engine management systems must be declared on the Dynamometer Certification Form. Failure to do so will result in disqualification of all timed sessions for the weekend. Adjustable engine management systems include but are not limited to systems such as MoTec and MegaSquirt that can upload and download from external computers, potentiometers, diodes, and switches (to include remote RF switches) that can alter signals from engine sensors and other factory installed devices such as traction control that change engine performance when non-drive wheels are stationary. Proposed change Clarification of rule. Specifically to broaden the rule to include boost controllers and other similar devices. Also clarification on the dyno form of what needs to be declared. Reason The current wording of the rule does not adequately cover the spirit of the rule. Making additions and changes to the wording would help alleviate confusion. Proposed wording All adjustable engine management systems and settings must be declared on the Dynamometer Certification Form. Failure to do so will result in disqualification of all timed sessions for the weekend. Adjustable engine management systems include but are not limited to systems such as boost controllers, MoTec and MegaSquirt that can upload and download from external computers, potentiometers, diodes, solenoids and switches (to include remote RF switches) that can alter signals from engine sensors and other factory and aftermarket installed devices such as but not limited to traction control that change engine performance when drive and/or non-drive wheels are stationary and/or moving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FandangoDrew Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I agree with this rule and would suggest that our dyno certification form be adjusted to account of this (like we had at Nationals this year). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobuffs Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 You added just "and settings" and that makes it more clear? I'd say something like anything that is not stock the affects engine performance has to be declared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSCoupe Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 I have no problem with this, and would even take it farther. How about having to attach a spec sheet to the dyno form that fully describes the capabilities of the system, and how it can be adjusted. A system brochure could fit the bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cash7c3 Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 I have no problem with this, and would even take it farther. How about having to attach a spec sheet to the dyno form that fully describes the capabilities of the system, and how it can be adjusted.A system brochure could fit the bill. I submitted this change being the only (aftermarket) turbo GTS car in the region. That might be a bit much, although if the rule is changed to require a spec sheet that fully describes the capabilities of the system and how it can be adjusted I will happily attach that to my dyno . . . it'll be around 50 pages detailing how to operate 3 buttons though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMag Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 i agree with proposed change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTL Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 I have carburetors Enough said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doclouns Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 I Agree with this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
911.racer Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I guess I am confused about what really would be changing here. Maybe the dyno sheet should just say type of engine management and modifications. Because you can modify anything. I have a Porsche Cup car and although Porsche Motorsport has done everything they can to prevent anyone from modifying the programming I hear that there are like 3 people out there who can do it for you. Thanks Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric W. Posted November 4, 2012 Members Share Posted November 4, 2012 Agree. Do it like we had at Nationals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CARVAL Motorsports Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Agree. Do it like we had at Nationals. Agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTL Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Agree. Do it like we had at Nationals. elaborate for those of us dingleberries that couldn't make it to most recent Nationals? Thanks, Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Michael G. Posted November 4, 2012 Members Share Posted November 4, 2012 The Dyno Declaration Form used at Nationals in addition to the certification form can be found at GTS website. Michael G. NE GTS Dir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach H. Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 I agree and think that the 2012 Nationals sheet should become the new standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbm3 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Use the form we use for Nationals. It covers it pretty well. -Scott B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstreit911 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Nationals form suits me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTL Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Thanks for clarifying. Wasn't sure if there was a different form used specifically at Nationals. No issues here with the dyno & declaration forms as currently stated on the GTS website Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSG1901 Posted November 6, 2012 Author Share Posted November 6, 2012 For those who haven't seen it yet, the "form used at Nationals" that's being referred to in this discussion can be seen here: http://nasagts.drivenasa.com/images/stories/2012_GTS_Declaration_form.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobuffs Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 So then why a "rule change"? How about "Here, use this form"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbm3 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 So then why a "rule change"? How about "Here, use this form"? +1, we don't need a rule change. Just add it to the dyno form that we turn in every year. Some will need to turn it in separately as they may not have to re dyno until later in the racing year. -Scott B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doclouns Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 So then why a "rule change"? How about "Here, use this form"? +1, we don't need a rule change. Just add it to the dyno form that we turn in every year. Some will need to turn it in separately as they may not have to re dyno until later in the racing year. Agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSG1901 Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 It seems pretty clear to me that the overall consensus on this is to combine the existing Dyno Certification form with the declaration form we added at this year's Nationals and be done with it. Makes sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted December 6, 2012 National Staff Share Posted December 6, 2012 FYI, we are going to add this to the TT, PT, and ST Rules. You might want to consider it for GTS. Any hardware that allows a competitor to wirelessly connect to the ECU at any time during competition or post-competition impound is strictly prohibited, regardless of whether such hardware is external or internal to the ECU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSG1901 Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 Greg, Thanks for sharing. I like that a lot. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbm3 Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 I agree with the wireless amendment to the declaration form. On another subject, weren't all these rule change discussions supposed to be closed Nov 25th ? As the changes or Non changes should be announced in the next week!!! -Scott B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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