masitr Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 (edited) According to the new 2013 ST3/TT3 Rules some OEM aero cars are subject to the .5 aero penalty. Is there an official list that can be posted. Looking at manufacturer downforce numbers I have come up with the following short list that look like they will be subject to this rule. - S2000 CR - Corvette ZR1 / Z06 w/ CFZ Aero Package - Porsche GT3 / GT3RS - Lotus Exige - C63 AMG Black - M3 GTS - Most Modern Ferrari's - Mustang Boss 302 Leguna Seca Edited November 13, 2012 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Don't the top end mustangs come with a lot of aero bits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masitr Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 I forgot about that one... Updated list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petemac Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 (edited) According to the new 2013 ST3/TT3 Rules some OEM aero cars are subject to the .5 aero penalty. Is there an official list that can be posted. Looking at manufacturer downforce numbers I have come up with the following short list that look like they will be subject to this rule. - S2000 CR - Corvette ZR1 / Z06 w/ CFZ Aero Package - Porsche GT3 / GT3RS - Lotus Exige - C63 AMG Black - M3 GTS - Most Modern Ferrari's - Mustang Boss 302 Leguna Seca The Corvette Z06 and ZR1 are being assessed the .5 penalty???? 7.3.1 d.) ST3 only The addition of non-OEM aerodynamic aides or modification of OEM body lines (unless specifically stated otherwise in these rules), will be assessed a Modification Factor to the “Adjusted Weight/Power Ratio”. In this case, non-OEM is defined as any part that does not come from the vehicle manufacturer either as a standard feature, a factory option, or on a factory optional trim model/package of that generation of the street-legal (in the U.S.A.) version of the vehicle. So based on that I believe your list is not correct. Edited November 13, 2012 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Where are you even seeing THAT list as being dinged. I'm not seeing it. The way things are written currently if it was offered from the OEM for street use, it counts as non-aero. I searched all 15 pages of the ruleset and didn't find any references to those cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masitr Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 Where are you even seeing THAT list as being dinged. I'm not seeing it. The way things are written currently if it was offered from the OEM for street use, it counts as non-aero. I searched all 15 pages of the rule set and didn't find any references to those cars. I haven't seen it officially that is why I posted, but mention was made during the discussion that certain OEM down force cars would still receive the penalty also. Otherwise this class is going to turn into "Well you should have bought the right car then!" class. Here is a link to the original discussion - Read Greg's first post http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=66442 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Pre-ruleset release discussions don't mean much once the ruleset is actually released. THIS is what matters now: http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/Super-Touring.pdf Know it, live by it, prepare by it, and try to remember this is supposed to be fun. Edit - and the Corvette Mafia is still going to destroy everyone. Ah well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Edit - and the Corvette Mafia is still going to destroy everyone. Ah well. lol My guess is there will be an addendum or something similar to address this.....or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 All your plastic trophies are belong to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masitr Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 Edit - and the Corvette Mafia is still going to destroy everyone. Ah well. lol My guess is there will be an addendum or something similar to address this.....or not. "or not" is probably more realistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 All your plastic trophies are belong to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balroks Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 All your plastic trophies are belong to us. Gotta love old school game translations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperkins Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Good stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvetthead Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 All your plastic trophies are belong to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masitr Posted November 14, 2012 Author Share Posted November 14, 2012 Pre-ruleset release discussions don't mean much once the ruleset is actually released. THIS is what matters now:http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/Super-Touring.pdf Know it, live by it, prepare by it, and try to remember this is supposed to be fun. Edit - and the Corvette Mafia is still going to destroy everyone. Ah well. SUR was fun before when other makes could still be built to be competitive. For 2013 the fun was taken out of it since they are now blatantly favoring certain cars and now almost forcing us to start with a platform if we want to be competitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 SUR was fun before when other makes could still be built to be competitive. For 2013 the fun was taken out of it since they are now blatantly favoring certain cars and now almost forcing us to start with a platform if we want to be competitive. who are they favoring? what's different than 2012 and before other than power to weight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masitr Posted November 14, 2012 Author Share Posted November 14, 2012 SUR was fun before when other makes could still be built to be competitive. For 2013 the fun was taken out of it since they are now blatantly favoring certain cars and now almost forcing us to start with a platform if we want to be competitive. who are they favoring? what's different than 2012 and before other than power to weight? The aero penalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 run TT2/ST2 then, doesn't apply there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masitr Posted November 14, 2012 Author Share Posted November 14, 2012 I would but I can't make another 60 hp or take 200 lbs out of the car (or any combination) to be competitive it that class either. It would take a complete redesign of the car to do so. Basically being built and developed for ST/TTS over the last 5 years. The competitiveness of my car currently has be written out of the rules for 2013. run TT2/ST2 then, doesn't apply there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 The competitiveness of my car currently has be written out of the rules for 2013. Why is it not competitive, because the aero guys can run aero for only .5 in lost power, or because you have a car with factory aero getting dinged? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masitr Posted November 14, 2012 Author Share Posted November 14, 2012 The competitiveness of my car currently has be written out of the rules for 2013. Why is it not competitive, because the aero guys can run aero for only .5 in lost power, or because you have a car with factory aero getting dinged? The problem I have is the loop hole left open for OEM down force cars that don't receive the same penalty and by having an aero penalty in the first place caters to factory sports cars that are aerodynamically efficient. Thus not giving equal opportunity to other platforms to catch up aerodynamically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 The competitiveness of my car currently has be written out of the rules for 2013. Why is it not competitive, because the aero guys can run aero for only .5 in lost power, or because you have a car with factory aero getting dinged? The problem I have is the loop hole left open for OEM down force cars that don't receive the same penalty and by having an aero penalty in the first place caters to factory sports cars that are aerodynamically efficient. Thus not giving equal opportunity to other platforms to catch up aerodynamically. But a Honda Civic was the fastest car in TTS at Nationals this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masitr Posted November 14, 2012 Author Share Posted November 14, 2012 But a Honda Civic was the fastest car in TTS at Nationals this year. And the only way that was even possible was open aero rules in TTS then it was followed by 3 C5 corvettes. With OEM aero on both of those cars do you think that would have been possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Civic would be smart to take the minor 0.5 ratio hit to level the playing field. Dude, no one has even hit the track with a new ST3/TT3 car yet, nevermind two of them at the same track at the same time to even see if that 0.5 difference is correct or not. Let's see how close it is before trying to get the whole system thrown out. Unless it's going to be replaced back with PTA/TTA, then I'm with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 But a Honda Civic was the fastest car in TTS at Nationals this year. And the only way that was even possible was open aero rules in TTS then it was followed by 3 C5 corvettes. With OEM aero on both of those cars do you think that would have been possible? I have no idea what it means, I just use it as justification for any argument now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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