BigHungry Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) Hi Everyone, I have been with NASA for just over a year and I would like to share a little bit about my experience and my track car build. I have been driving/owning BMW's for 20yrs and for the last 12yrs or so I've been wanting to go drive one on a track. For one reason or another I didn't get around to going due to time, school, money, etc. Last year I decided it was time. I have an 92 325is that I've owned for 16yrs and I was needing a replacement daily driver. I found a 99 540i with a messed up 5sp auto trans. I bought it for next to nothing and rebuilt the trans, put in new new suspension, brakes, etc. Made it almost new again. After the rebuild was finished, I found NASA online and decided to do my HPDE with my 540i. My e36 would become a track car. My first time ever on a track was at Road Atlanta Dec 2011 Santa's Toy Run. I knew after the very first session that this was either going to be my first and last track experience or this would be my new found hobby/passion/obsession. You couldn't wipe the smile off my face after that first session. The first warm up lap was faster than I had ever been able to drive on the street. I knew after that very first lap that I was going to give this sport 100% of everything I have. The guys at work think I'm crazy for spending $700+ to drive my street car around a track that took 5-8hrs to get to. I just tell them – If I have to explain it, then you wouldn't understand. So, here I am. A year later. I've been to 8 events, 5 tracks. Road Atlanta(3), Putnam Park, Gingerman, VIR(2), Mid-Ohio. I was at RA Dec2012 and got signed off for DE3. I have been doing 100+hrs of track car research since Dec 2011until my 92 325is e36 hit 300k in Sept 2012. I now had my plan, money, skills,and an e36 chassis available to build my track car. I have been a mechanic /machinist/ fabricator/ welder in various industries. Part of the research for the last 8 months was deciding time vs money or what I could fabricate vs purchase. OK, now on to the track car build. I decided that I wanted to build a BMW GTR for TT1. I wanted to build a production chassis base race car right to the 5.5 wt/pwr ratio adjusted limit. I have a budget of $40k and hoping to complete in less than 600hrs. I am trying to build this car to NASA CCR ST1,STR1,SU rules. I don't plan on racing W2W with this car but I'm trying to build it in case somebody else wants to. I really enjoy the technical part of race cars and I'm completely content with the man vs machine vs track. Here are a few of the highlights of my BMW GTR e36 LS3 525 Build: LS3 525hp crate motor (new) FAST Fuel rails Holley Billet Fuel Pumps/Filters Fuel Safe fuel cell ProComp 7qt Alum Oil pan(mod for drysump) 3 Gallon drysump oil system Single pass Alum Tube oil cooler Custom built headers/exhaust ACT lightweight flywheel ACT 900ft/lb clutch Tremec Magnum 6sp Custom built single alum driveshaft custom built LSD 4 disc GC e36 full race coilover suspension GC e36 frt/rear race sway bars UUC Lower rear control arms Roll center corrected frt arms (fab) Bumpsteer corrected steering (fab) Wilwood Superlite 4 piston RacingBrakes 348mm two piece open slot Frt rotors StopTech 325mm Powerslot M3 Frt Rotor for rear BMW 345mm M3 Comp Rotors Frt (use as spares) BMW 325mm M3 frt rotors Rear (use as spares) Tilton Dual Master cyl w/bal bar Tilton Clutch master cyl Autometer Ultralite gauges CCW 18x11 18x12 (2 sets) 315/30/18 335/30/18 A6 (4 full sets w/90% tread) 6 nozzle FireSense fire suppression Full chassis cage (frt rear strut towers, rear sub) Full chassis reinforcements Full Aero/Bodywork package (fab) All required Safety equipment I only have the GC Race coilovers and rollcage to left to purchase. My living room looks like a race car parts warehouse. The budget also included spare parts. I have extra rotors, pads calipers, hose fittings,belts, hoses, etc. Budget: 40k Total hrs so far: 320 (including research) I usually don't do any of the social media internet (forums, facebook, twitter, etc) but I thought you guys would like to read and follow along with my build. I have rarely ever posted anything to any forum. I welcome any comments, suggestions, or ride along requests for later this year. I hoping to finish the build and be ready for the track in time for the May Putnam Park event. I just want to say thanks to all you guys at NASA for providing me a great learning experience. I really enjoyed all the people I've met and look forward to meeting more of you in DE3/4 and TT. Have a Great Day and Enjoy!!! Mark Video/Slideshow Archive BMW GTR Part 1 BMW GTR Part 2 BMW GTR Part 3 First Start up LS3 http://youtu.be/f9Nfym0rvYM BMW GTR Part 4 BMW GTR Part 5 BMW GTR Part 6 BMW GTR Part 7 http://youtu.be/Uj2YejSj--Y BMW GTR Part 8 http://youtu.be/QCUpJgbGNwI BMW GTR Part 9 BMW GTR teaser BMW GTR Part 10 http://youtu.be/7itaJvcV8ck Putnam Park May 2013 http://youtu.be/c7g4hj5Duus Finish Build: Here are a few photo highlights: Going to build something like this.... LS3 going in first time Built Headers Built 3in exhaust It all literally fits perfect header wrap Put trans and exhaust back in after wrapping Engine/trans/exhaust/cooling/fuel/oil systems in ready for electrical Edited September 12, 2013 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braknl8 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Gonna be a sweet ride! Was nice meeting you at RA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Talk about jumping into the deep end with both feet Keep the updates coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bnjmn Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Many people have found that an LS3 needs a dry sump to stay alive on a road course with sticky tires. Not sure if any have lived with a big wet sump, but I doubt the outcome will be better than the unfortunate results with the LS3 batwing pan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maynor Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Unfortunately, some of your budget should have been diverted into a proper drysump setup if your going to track that car with sticky tires. Wet sump LS3s don't last more than a session, if that, in my experience. I'd encourage you to rethink the priorities on what the rest of your budget will buy to truly enjoy that car. You also won't get close enough to the 5.5 lb/hp goal you set for yourself with that motor configuration in an E36. Focus on reliability and driver improvements/safety first, then worry about the rest of the build. John E36 LS3 ST1/TTU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bnjmn Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 The next question is whether an ASA-style dry sump will work or whether a multi-stage setup is necessary. I'd budget an add'l $4k for the 4 stage. Don't skimp on the pan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 170 mph down through RA T9, don't lift Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maynor Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 The next question is whether an ASA-style dry sump will work or whether a multi-stage setup is necessary. I'd budget an add'l $4k for the 4 stage. Don't skimp on the pan. Multi-stage is nice but not neccassary. I don't know enough about the ASA style to comment. I'm using the stock oil pump for the pressure side and a conventional suction pump pretty much plumbed like "Special 1005" here: http://www.drysump.com/LS%20Plumbing%20Schematics.htm ARE pan/pump/tank. The tank is in the trunk which makes plumbing a challenge but not hard to overcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bnjmn Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 That is comparable - I think the official ASA setup was a 2 stage sucker, with the OEM gerotor. You won't pull much vacuum, but not a big deal w/the existing low tension ring setup. I have heard that the LS3 rings are not ideal, but flutter has been a recurring issue on LS engines. Some reading to wade through: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/autocrossing-and-roadracing/2824807-let-me-ask-another-way-whos-ls3-hasn-t-blown-up-on-the-track.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Nice build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHungry Posted December 12, 2012 Author Share Posted December 12, 2012 Unfortunately, some of your budget should have been diverted into a proper drysump setup if your going to track that car with sticky tires. Wet sump LS3s don't last more than a session, if that, in my experience. I'd encourage you to rethink the priorities on what the rest of your budget will buy to truly enjoy that car. You also won't get close enough to the 5.5 lb/hp goal you set for yourself with that motor configuration in an E36. Focus on reliability and driver improvements/safety first, then worry about the rest of the build. John E36 LS3 ST1/TTU I have been debating whether to put a dry sump on it for last month or so. I will more than likely put a drysump system on engine before I install the engine back in after the chassis work. I did a weight setup with sand bags to get preliminary corner weight numbers to give to GC suspension this week. I will end up with about 6.2-6.3 ratio. With the wide body, big brakes, wheel/tires, and full chassis stiffening ended being 200+lbs compared to std race prepped e36. Safety and reliability are main focus and plan on taking a few years have fun to get my ability up to the ability of this race car. The cage will be here Friday. Planning on doing a complete chassis teardown and cleanup this weekend. Fun Fun Fun. It's all worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavychevy Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Awesome build man, good luck and great mechanic skills. Heed the advice on the dry sumps though, LS3's go boom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kubs Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Wow! Looks great so far and will be even better when done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHungry Posted December 24, 2012 Author Share Posted December 24, 2012 (edited) Here is an update for the last couple of weeks. Didn't get too much done. Had a really busy week at work. I got the chassis stripped down. Removed engine,trans (3rd time), Removed front and rear suspensions, rear subframe. Cut out rear deck ( will replace with a nice alum panel). Removed all old bushings, balljoints, and wheel bearings from control arms and spindles. I had to weld in a new piece of floor board behind the drivers seat and another near dead pedal area. I tacked in all the roll cage and chassis plates. I ran out of welding gas. oh well, I was about done for the weekend anyway. I have decided to go with a dry sump system. I'm not sure what I was thinking with the wet sump. I forget the caliber of race car I'm building and it would be nuts not to put a dry sump. It would one less thing to worry about. I can focus on the car/track and not thinking about if I push too hard I'll starve the engine and boom. I don't want the oil system to be the limiting factor. The guys at Ground Control gave a decent discount on my suspension and cost much less than planned. I used that extra money to pick a few things for the drysump. AVIAID 3 section scavenge only pump from a World Challenge Corvette Team - $400 Patterson 3 gallon tank (used) - $150 ATI SuperDamper w/10% underdrive (new) - $500 Hoses, fittings, filters - $600 Misc - $150 Use the AC bracket and tensioner that came with engine acc package- $0 Total $1800 Peace of Mind....Priceless I'm going to used my existing oil pan. I will weld on pick ups on the rear both left and right side. The third up front on the left. Will remove all doors/baffles and build an insert to direct oil flow towards these pick ups. I will build a new oil pump inlet tube to a fitting on the side of pan to attach the oil infeed line. Going to used 16an for supply from tank and 12an for scavenge pump to tank. I'm planning on putting the tank within the cage area behind the passenger seat. I was needing 50lbs in the RR corner anyway. I got my cage and my CCW wheels delivered last week also. Have a Great Holiday Season!!!! Edited February 19, 2013 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHungry Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) Hi guys - here's an update... I got 2 good condition bmw lsd diffs with 2 clutches and made a custom built lsd with 4 disc clutch and 3.91 gearing. I now have extra bearings, clutch housing, and spider gear shaft plates to change ramp angles if I decide to later on. Rebuilt diff housing with new seal, bearings and RE 3qt finned diff cover and solid mounts. Cage building is not for a fat man. Rear subframe reinforcement from the top connecting to cage. Have plates to welding underneath too. I decided to weld plates to bottom of chassis and box in each main tube points. Added main hoop diag bar. I will weld in harness bars after seat brackets are made and seat height set. I also have a few more brackets to make in the rear seat area. Next on the list....add door shells and measure for nascar widebody door bars, build seat brackets, install belt brackets, weld in brackets for oil tank, battery, fire tank and pulls, and on and on...... Edited February 19, 2013 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Sweet... keep up the good work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braknl8 Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Lookin' good, man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfteague Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 go go go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 That is a whole lotta cage. Nice build! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHungry Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share Posted January 28, 2013 (edited) Here's an update..... I have added a Part 4 video slideshow. I finished making seat brackets and a plate to hold the battery box,fire tank and a bracket for drysump tank. I'm working on mounting the dash and fitting brackets for the floor boards, master cylinder fluid reservoirs, master switch, and fuse/relay boxes. i would have liked to put the fire tank lower and behind the passenger seat but with the seat position all way back it wouldn't fit. I used the old gas tank straps to make the drysump tank straps. will look nice once everything is painted. Edited February 19, 2013 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maynor Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 I'd encourage you to move the dry sump tank to the trunk and firewall it off. I did. A couple of good reasons include: 1) you don't want scalding 250 degree oil in the cabin next to you in case of an accident. The tank and/or lines could rupture. 2) the heat load pouring off that tank into the cabin will suck in the summer. If you're racing wheel to wheel, rules require it anyway. If you're doing TT only, not required but a smart idea anyway. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Baller McBallerson Esquire has spoken... that does look pretty, but of course I like clean shiny car parts. I thought your car was all red on the inside? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maynor Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Old picture Brian. All red now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHungry Posted January 29, 2013 Author Share Posted January 29, 2013 I'd encourage you to move the dry sump tank to the trunk and firewall it off. I did. A couple of good reasons include: 1) you don't want scalding 250 degree oil in the cabin next to you in case of an accident. The tank and/or lines could rupture. 2) the heat load pouring off that tank into the cabin will suck in the summer. If you're racing wheel to wheel, rules require it anyway. If you're doing TT only, not required but a smart idea anyway. John John, I appreciate your advise but here are a some reasons for current tank location. I accept all the safety risk with having the tank and all the hoses inside the cabin. I will know immediately if there is a leak or other issue by smell or sight and can safely go offline, hit my big red E-stop next to my leg to shut it all down, and pull the car off track. The leak will be contained inside the car and the leak will be my problem along with having to clean the oil out the inside of my car. I would not be able to live with myself if looked in my mirror and saw many of my fellow racers sliding off track, hitting walls, damaging there cars because I didn't know I was dumping oil. I'm more concerned about creating a problem for other drivers. If there is a problem, it will be my problem contained within my car. I have no room in the engine area, the trunk area has the fuel cell and fuel pump system. The tank vent will be in the trunk area behind the bulkhead and not in the cabin. I didn't think any passengers would want to straddle a hot oil tank between there legs. I work with hot hydraulic systems everyday and the hoses will be steel braided with insulated protective sleeves that run between the floor board and the chassis floor pan. As far as cooling goes, I may add a cooling box with air ducts to take some of the heat out of the cabin. I have seen many many videos of sump tanks in the passenger area only a couple of feet away in TT and W2W. I have looked very hard to find the NASA CCR that states a non-pressurized, non-fuel related cell/tank has to be behind a bulkhead. It only states: 15.14 Hoses Inside Cockpit All hoses carrying any flammable liquids or any gases that go through the cockpit must be metal or steel braided or reinforced. The HPDE section 11.4.17 adds: any hot or flammable liquids should be reinforced. If any one has the exact rule for oil tanks, please let me know so i can correct now. I do not plan on W2W racing with this car. I will be doing TT and would like to be an instructor in a few years. If I do decide one day to W2W, I will more than likely do SE30. For me, it is a oil containment issue. Any oil tank issue will be my problem and contained within my car and hopefully not involve someone else on the track. On a secondary note, the tanks added the missing 50lbs to the right rear to balance the car. Have a great Day!!! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHungry Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share Posted February 20, 2013 I had a great time at my relaxation therapy weekend with NASA SE at CMP a couple of weeks ago. It was my first time at CMP and was my last event driving my e39 540i on the track. Hopefully I will be driving my BMW GT36R at my next event. CMP is a very interesting track and I wish it was closer. Here's an update on the build: Fitted the dash, built a panel to mount the brake/clutch reservoirs and master switch. The dash will be all black when finished. Also welded the quick release hub to the steering shaft. Mounting plate to hold ECM, Main fuse/relay box, secondary fuse/relay panel. fits neatly just under the dash. Added fire pull cable bracket to the PS main hoop. With the seat position all the way back, my reach was about 4 inches from the dash. I built a electrical box to hold all the switches. All gauges and warning lights will be on the dash. Plenty of clearance between my arm/elbow. Also attached my brake adjuster and second fire cable pull. Built foot box/pedal plate Installed pedals. Built an adjustable gas pedal bracket (not shown - its under the dash). It can be moved about an inch forward or back to find just the right spot for easy rev matching. Up Next: Floor boards, trans tunnel side plates, rear bulkhead plates, and harness brackets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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