bluefirepony Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I suspect Spec Iron will get it's own forum but don't see it yet. The rules state you can use the M-2353-A module but don't say anything about the HCU....does that mean you can run the ABS w/o the upgraded HCU? IIRC the stock HCU is not capable of doing what the racing module wants it to do (rate of cycling, etc); but it's been over a year since I messed with it so I thought I'd get clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlingle Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I have talked about this with Al and Marshall this weekend. Everything I have seen shows that the GT cars need the GT500 HCU and possibly the GT500 brake booster to run the FRPP ABS Module. Hoping to see some clarification on this soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djs197mustang Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I have talked about this with Al and Marshall this weekend. Everything I have seen shows that the GT cars need the GT500 HCU and possibly the GT500 brake booster to run the FRPP ABS Module. Hoping to see some clarification on this soon. This is the very reason I bought a new GT500 HCU to match up with the FR500S Module. I'd hate to think I dropped several hundred dollars without reason! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshallmosty Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 All, I talked to Todd Covini about updating the rules to include the allowance of the GT500 HCU which is required to be used in conjunction with the FR ABS module. 7R3Z-2C215-C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I'd hate to think I dropped several hundred dollars without reason! with a Spec series, where every allowed mod is spelled out, I'd ask first if something was ok first and buy second Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlingle Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 All,I talked to Todd Covini about updating the rules to include the allowance of the GT500 HCU which is required to be used in conjunction with the FR ABS module. 7R3Z-2C215-C Thanks Marshall! I hadn't been able to find that part number anywhere. It wasnt even on the FR500S spec sheet. Good find. $600+ part though. Ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlingle Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Can anyone verify if the GT500 brake booster listed on the FR500S build sheet is a requirement as well to make the FRPP ABS work on an 05-09 GT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunter Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Can anyone verify if the GT500 brake booster listed on the FR500S build sheet is a requirement as well to make the FRPP ABS work on an 05-09 GT? I think the FR500S car uses a different low assist booster, but that maybe only the FR500C cars. I do know one of them uses a very (!!) expensive booster, somewhere around $1200 or so. The GT500 booster can be had for around $90 I think, I remember it wasn't too expensive when I swapped mine over. You don't have to swap, but you'll want to as the GT booster provides way too much assist IMO. I think the GT500 still provides too much assist, to the point I'm considering swapping to manual brakes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluefirepony Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 We ran w/o any change to the booster when testing the FR500 ABS module/HCU on our 2005...the way the car performed I would tend to agree with Ed that less assist would be needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djs197mustang Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Luckily it's not my intention to run Spec Iron. The small matter of crossing the Pacific Ocean with a truck & trailer gets in the way of that. I'd hate to think I dropped several hundred dollars without reason! with a Spec series, where every allowed mod is spelled out, I'd ask first if something was ok first and buy second Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djs197mustang Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 FYI, from the 2009 Mustang Challenge Season FR500S Parts list: Brake Hoses FR500S M-2078-A Brake Booster 2008 Mustang Shelby GT500 7R3Z-2005-A Master Cylinder 2008 Mustang Shelby GT500 6R3Z-2140-AA ABS Module FR500S M-2353-A ABS HCU 2008 Mustang Shelby GT500 7R3Z-2C215-C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlingle Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Thanks for the part number listing. I hope that the Spec Iron folks will conisder writing the FRPP ABS Module out of the rules rather than writing that entire parts list into the rules. I would be just as happy with everyone on Ford factory ABS as Ford Racing ABS. It would definitely make the build cheaper without having to buy all those parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshallmosty Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 John, The only problem is the HCU's are visually identical, as are the ABS modules. There are numbers stamped in the top of the HCU's, but they don't coorespond to the Ford PN. The labels on the ABS modules also easily wipe clean with brake fluid, which happens to be in close proximity to the module when disconnecting the brake lines. Therefore, that is why in the AI rules at least, any 2005+ ABS system is deemed to be a FR system with the GT500 HCU and fancy FR module. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlingle Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Ah, that makes sense then. Oh well, whats another grand? Good info to have though. Probably will be one of the very last things on my list. I wonder how much of a quantifiable difference there is between the two? *Ducks and runs...* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T&A Racing Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Just make them swappable like the computers to avoid special tunes. I think you have a better hcu I will run it in my car. Simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshallmosty Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Just make them swappable like the computers to avoid special tunes. I think you have a better hcu I will run it in my car. Simple Mark, If swapping the HCU didn't involve 6 brake lines being cracked and then having to cycle the air out of the HCU, that just might work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 does the HCU unit by itself have an advantage or does it also need the electronic module (and vice-versa). Thinking here is that the electronic module may be easier to swap...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshallmosty Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 does the HCU unit by itself have an advantage or does it also need the electronic module (and vice-versa). Thinking here is that the electronic module may be easier to swap...? Ken, Not 100% sure, but from installing the FR system in my FOX, the GT500 HCU was spec'd out to match the FR ABS module. If I were a betting man, I would say the GT500 HCU is better than the stock HCU and that coupled with the FR ABS gets you to top tier stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T&A Racing Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Just make them swappable like the computers to avoid special tunes. I think you have a better hcu I will run it in my car. Simple Mark, If swapping the HCU didn't involve 6 brake lines being cracked and then having to cycle the air out of the HCU, that just might work... Well the ai rules say they can take apart my transmission if they want to see if I have syncros so it could be done if that is the rule we think we want it could be enforced. I am sure Ford also could help NASA out with a way to read the code. We have had this debate before I just can't believe there is not away to tell two parts apart if we really want to. I don't know that have to but I am very confident we can figure it out. It is just a box with some computer code in it it will tell you what code it has if for no other reason ford or someone would have a copyright on the program and they want to know when program is in there or has been changes or stolen. I think we should focus on the real issue and that is which abs allowed per the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevepoe Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Not trying to sound like a Debbie Downer but If your worried about the cost of a abs system I have a feeling your in for a rude suprise When this gets up and going. I can see this turning into a spec miata class. Have any clue what a front running spec miata costs to build ? I would have thought more focus would have been on a spec shock and spring setup . I can very easily see this turning into a a sedan shock / spring battle. They should have put these cars on a track pak suspension or a basic ford racing kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardP Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Not trying to sound like a Debbie Downer but If your worried about the cost of a abs system I have a feeling your in for a rude suprise When this gets up and going. I can see this turning into a spec miata class. Have any clue what a front running spec miata costs to build ? I don't think it will be as bad as that. Conceptually it's pretty different from an engine standpoint. The dyno testing does have some drawbacks but it is pretty effective at keeping costs down. You also don't have to take your engine parts home in a box after big races. I would have thought more focus would have been on a spec shock and spring setup . I can very easily see this turning into a a sedan shock / spring battle. They should have put these cars on a track pak suspension or a basic ford racing kit. This I completely agree with. There is a cost limit on shocks but that realistically only limits you to a few different shock bodies. There is effectively no restriction on how much you could spend to tweak and develop the guts inside. They use the same cost model for CMC and I don't know of anyone currently abusing it but the potential is there. With a spec class, its so easy to lock this down and make it a non-issue. I would really like to see them fix this now rather than wait a year or two before they figure out how big of a problem it can be. Richard P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larsend Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Back in ’08 when I had my ’06 Mustang GT and wanted to upgrade my brakes I talked to Jeff Feit from Ford Racing here’s what he related……….. - The GT ABS module will limit your braking ability, in that it won't allow you to achieve the deceleration rates that the race modules will on sticky tires. As for the parts, he related; yes you need the GT500 Hydraulic Control Unit (HCU), so for Spec Iron it would be nice if they authorized the HCU. - M-2300-S GT500 Brake Kit - M-2353-A / ABS Module (turns off traction control) - 7R3Z-2C215-C / GT500 HCU But as long as we are on the subject of brakes here’s a little more; There are 4 different boosters for these cars (05-08 GT / 09-10 GT / GT500 / FR500C) we can only use the stock one but what’s the difference between them? - The 05-08 GT is a fixed ratio - The 09-10 is a fixed ratio (higher than the original) with some changes to the jump-in. I talked (Jeff Feit) to the brake engineer at SVT, and he thinks that the 09-10 booster is the best choice. I would have thought more focus would have been on a spec shock and spring setup . I can very easily see this turning into a a sedan shock / spring battle. They should have put these cars on a track pak suspension or a basic ford racing kit. This I completely agree with. There is a cost limit on shocks but that realistically only limits you to a few different shock bodies. There is effectively no restriction on how much you could spend to tweak and develop the guts inside. They use the same cost model for CMC and I don't know of anyone currently abusing it but the potential is there. With a spec class, its so easy to lock this down and make it a non-issue. I would really like to see them fix this now rather than wait a year or two before they figure out how big of a problem it can be. ^^This........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CF03GT Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Another vote for a spec shock/spring package (rule change ASAP, before guys go out and spend on the "open" stuff, and have to once again, make changes. Most guys already are behind the ball with the late spec series announcement). And I vote NO ABS at all!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhdinyuma Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Shocks.....SPEC EM Dan'o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlingle Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I would prefer to see a spec shock package as well. Like Steve mentioned there is a FRPP "track pack" that would be an easy and affordable choice that is easy for everyone to order. If there is some way to police the HCU I would love to see it relegated to GT stock as well. Not sire how concern over that is any different than the shock issue though Steve. Its pretty easy to figure out an exact dollar figure for a build given the rules as is. I know how much it is, but if there is a way to make it more affordable I'm all for it. Spec ing the shocks would only make it more affordable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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