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Paisan

NASA NE CCR- Call for suggestions for 2013

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Paisan

Just wanted to let everyone know we are currently starting to review and revise the Nasa Northeast CCR for 2013. Please e-mail to nasa@iace.com any ideas you have for changing or updating the rules specific to the Northeast. Thanks.

 

-mike

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Jimmypetm3

Mike, what is the policy on crossover racers from say SCCA?

 

How does it work within the NASA GCR?

 

I'd like to possibly do a NASA race or two this year but I'm not sure how easy it is to double dip.

Feel free to email me if you want to take it off the forum (jimmypet at mac dot com)

Thanks

jimmy pettinato

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PThibault

I believe that 2012 was the first year that the tech annual sticker had to be placed on the windshield. Windshields crack and need to get replaced often in racing. Would like to see the stickers go back on the roll cage for the 2013 season. Would save time for tech and racers.

 

Thanks

Peter Thibault

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Pantera1889

Mike,

 

How about lining up the race cars according to class ?? That way the competition would be

closer atleast at the beginning of the race. If you line them up from fastest to slowest ,you don't get a chance to race cars in your class that actually matter.

 

 

Ron

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peterswarts

Hi Mike,

 

Under safety for DE events there probably should be some mention about harnesses needing to not be expired for NJ since it is part of their laws.

 

Also need to remove Jay as being chief instructor.

 

Please don't forget to re-add my car number to the list again.

 

Thanks!

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Paisan
I believe that 2012 was the first year that the tech annual sticker had to be placed on the windshield. Windshields crack and need to get replaced often in racing. Would like to see the stickers go back on the roll cage for the 2013 season. Would save time for tech and racers.

 

Thanks

Peter Thibault

 

I will run this by the Tech Director. I believe they do that (I'm not 100% sure) because if your windshield gets cracked they want to re-tech your car. But we can make a regional rule if the Tech guys agree to do that.

 

-mike

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Paisan
Mike,

 

How about lining up the race cars according to class ?? That way the competition would be

closer atleast at the beginning of the race. If you line them up from fastest to slowest ,you don't get a chance to race cars in your class that actually matter.

 

 

Ron

 

We can do this as it is an option. The issue with this is that often times your class does not dictate how fast you drive. By gridding by qualifying times it is considered the safest start method. I will bring it up at our annual staff meeting and get a consensus.

 

-mike

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Pantera1889
Mike,

 

How about lining up the race cars according to class ?? That way the competition would be

closer atleast at the beginning of the race. If you line them up from fastest to slowest ,you don't get a chance to race cars in your class that actually matter.

 

 

Ron

 

We can do this as it is an option. The issue with this is that often times your class does not dictate how fast you drive. By gridding by qualifying times it is considered the safest start method. I will bring it up at our annual staff meeting and get a consensus.

 

-mike

 

Thanks Mike! That was the only complaint that I had after racing with you guys at Watkins Glen the last two years. ( That and the weather LOL)

Very well organized events!

 

Ron

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petemac
Mike,

 

How about lining up the race cars according to class ?? That way the competition would be

closer atleast at the beginning of the race. If you line them up from fastest to slowest ,you don't get a chance to race cars in your class that actually matter.

 

 

Ron

 

We can do this as it is an option. The issue with this is that often times your class does not dictate how fast you drive. By gridding by qualifying times it is considered the safest start method. I will bring it up at our annual staff meeting and get a consensus.

 

-mike

 

I feel like that could get dangerous real quick, but thats just my opinion.

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Pantera1889
Mike,

 

How about lining up the race cars according to class ?? That way the competition would be

closer atleast at the beginning of the race. If you line them up from fastest to slowest ,you don't get a chance to race cars in your class that actually matter.

 

 

Ron

 

We can do this as it is an option. The issue with this is that often times your class does not dictate how fast you drive. By gridding by qualifying times it is considered the safest start method. I will bring it up at our annual staff meeting and get a consensus.

 

-mike

 

I feel like that could get dangerous real quick, but thats just my opinion.

 

 

How so?? We do it every race in the Mid Atlantic region and it has never caused a single problem as far as I know. I think that nearly all regions do it that way without it causing issues.And it makes for better racing! (Isn't that the point ???) I can see much more potential for a "dangerous" situation if several fast cars have issues in qualifying and start in a pack of much slower cars. Lets face it, most of the hard racing takes place in the first few laps. Once the cars get strung out,you have no chance to reel in the cars in your class that are running simillar lap times as you are.

The qualifying sessions are only 15 mins. If you have any issues at all, you get to start in the back of the field and have virtually no chance to catch the rest of the cars in your class unless there is a yellow.

I just think that we should try to minimize as much "out of class" racing as possible. If it doesn't matter in the finishing order,what's the point?

 

Ron

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blown5.0

I too would like to see starting grid by class. I'm sure there are some who want by class and some by raw time. A good compromise would be by raw time on sat and by class on sun. Sunday typically has less racers and the starts are not usually as crazy as saturdays.

 

I would like to see some standing starts as other regions do them regularly. For those who put in the crazy cant get off the line clutches thats on them as the CCR says rolling and stanting starts. I suggest sat is rolling starts and sun is standing starts. If nasaNe doesnt want to commit to this I suggest we but a NE CCR rule that states all rolling starts will be 1st gear rolling starts. 50mph rolling starts are boring and I hate it when the pole guy doesnt maintian speed and the back of the pack is still coming around the last turn but the front is green... 1st gear starts avoids the clutch issue, stalling issue, etc but nets the standing start effect as we will still get the drag race to turn1.

 

Al.

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peterswarts
If nasaNe doesnt want to commit to this I suggest we but a NE CCR rule that states all rolling starts will be 1st gear rolling starts. 50mph rolling starts are boring and I hate it when the pole guy doesnt maintian speed and the back of the pack is still coming around the last turn but the front is green... 1st gear starts avoids the clutch issue, stalling issue, etc but nets the standing start effect as we will still get the drag race to turn1.

 

Al.

 

I too like the idea of gridding by class. This lets the most in class competition to occur. It also allows someone who is having issues in the morning and either misses or blows qualifying to start at the back of their group and at least have a chance of a win. Unless you are Brian Casella and have a proven trackrecord of gaining 23+ overall positions when starting at the back , then it's not as fun with the outcome usually being way further back then the leader of your group.

 

I do agree there is a big issue of maintaining speed in the front so the rear can come around. Not sure about a hard code first gear rule. That would have me riding redline the entire time. I've even done a standing start in 2nd just due to my gearing.

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bcasella
I too would like to see starting grid by class. I'm sure there are some who want by class and some by raw time. A good compromise would be by raw time on sat and by class on sun. Sunday typically has less racers and the starts are not usually as crazy as saturdays.

 

I would like to see some standing starts as other regions do them regularly. For those who put in the crazy cant get off the line clutches thats on them as the CCR says rolling and stanting starts. I suggest sat is rolling starts and sun is standing starts. If nasaNe doesnt want to commit to this I suggest we but a NE CCR rule that states all rolling starts will be 1st gear rolling starts. 50mph rolling starts are boring and I hate it when the pole guy doesnt maintian speed and the back of the pack is still coming around the last turn but the front is green... 1st gear starts avoids the clutch issue, stalling issue, etc but nets the standing start effect as we will still get the drag race to turn1.

 

Al.

 

Sunday grouping cars according to class would make the lighter race day more interesting for sure, I like it.

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Paisan

To make as many folks happy as possible we came up with a few items on this at our Staff Meeting...

 

Gridding will be Saturday will be "As Qualified" order. Sunday will be "By Class" order.

 

Hope this makes everyone happy!

 

-mike

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joeykid

I object. Why are we changing the grid procedure just because of a couple of guys whining. When I go out I want to win the race not just my class. If I qualify fastest I expect to be. On the pole. So who grids first GTSU or SU? This plan locks SU cars into winning. If ain't broke don't fix it! NASA northeast has it's own policies. So a couple out of region guys post on our forum and that is it the rules are changed? Have a backbone someone please. We cannot please everyone.

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Paisan
I object. Why are we changing the grid procedure just because of a couple of guys whining. When I go out I want to win the race not just my class. If I qualify fastest I expect to be. On the pole. So who grids first GTSU or SU? This plan locks SU cars into winning. If ain't broke don't fix it! NASA northeast has it's own policies. So a couple out of region guys post on our forum and that is it the rules are changed? Have a backbone someone please. We cannot please everyone.

 

Pole will still go to whoever is fastest in qualifying.

 

The CCR allows for not only to be gridded by time or class, but also we can do standing or rolling starts....

 

The points and trophies are all based on class and no one should be racing out of class anyway!

 

-mike

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Paisan

PS: Don't shoot the messenger!

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Pantera1889

[quote="PaisanThe points and trophies are all based on class and no one should be racing out of class anyway!

 

-mike

 

 

EXACTLY!!!

 

Thanks Mike

 

 

Ron

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David Fazzino

I understand both thoughts on this. Try it for a season or less and see how the results are. Sat is the day the you see who has the fastest package with the biggest field and trophy's are that night.

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PaulieP55

I have to agree with Joe Catapano. The top quickest guys are racing each other regardless of class. I love to race Joe, Pete McIntosh, Ziggy, regardless of their class. Winning your class and a trophy is great, but aren't we all wishing to be 1st overall?

 

What this essentially does is make qualifying a mute point on Sunday. I could go out and run a 2:00 lap at Lightning and still start right next to Ziggy who qualified with a 1:10; and in front of all the ST2 guys that ran harder as well. How does that make sense?

 

One thing I would like to suggest is that there MUST be a minimum speed that a car has to maintain in order to stay on the track. Last year we had car 63G running lap speeds 30 mph avg less than the fastest driver at Thunderbolt. Thats totally unsafe!

 

Paul Plemenos

55 ST1

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Paisan
I have to agree with Joe Catapano. The top quickest guys are racing each other regardless of class. I love to race Joe, Pete McIntosh, Ziggy, regardless of their class. Winning your class and a trophy is great, but aren't we all wishing to be 1st overall?

 

What this essentially does is make qualifying a mute point on Sunday. I could go out and run a 2:00 lap at Lightning and still start right next to Ziggy who qualified with a 1:10; and in front of all the ST2 guys that ran harder as well. How does that make sense?

 

One thing I would like to suggest is that there MUST be a minimum speed that a car has to maintain in order to stay on the track. Last year we had car 63G running lap speeds 30 mph avg less than the fastest driver at Thunderbolt. Thats totally unsafe!

 

Paul Plemenos

55 ST1

 

The RD can black flag any car that is not keeping pace and/or is causing a dangerous situation. This is covered in the national CCR.

 

You should not be racing out of class period. There are no awards for winning the race overall. In fact at nationals they don't even consider them one race. They are merely several races sharing the track space.

 

In Grand-am do they mix the ST and GT cars for grid?

 

I don't have a strong feeling one way or another on this but just throwing it out there as devil's advocate.

 

-mike

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rickg87

Two cents:

1.The Grey Car 63 that was in the last race at NJMP TB was off pace and created dangerous situations. What good is having a rule in the CCR about slow pace if it's not enforced.

2. Why no trophies on Sunday's? If we spend a good amount $, time and Risk to race on Sunday, we should receive a trophy wether people stick around at the end of the day or not.

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Paisan

1) Would have to ask the RD.

2) I believe it is "tradition" that Saturday is considered the "feature" race of the weekend. Also the volunteers are usually busy packing up etc on Sunday so it makes it a bit difficult logistically.

 

-mike

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PaulieP55

Mike,

 

Not an apple to apple comparison. There are only 2 classes in Grand-Am. We are running 10 classes in the Thunder Group.

 

Additionally there is great disparity between the ST and GT classes of Grand Am, so a broken field start makes sense.

 

Who's faster GTSU or SU? GTS5 or ST1? GTS4 or ST2? GTS3 or ST3? etc.; thats why we mix it up with people outside of our group, because we are wheel to wheel with those other classes of cars. It's good racing.

 

What happens if I'm the only guy in my class, am I to just go out and log laps? I hope that's not NASA's philosophy. I race in NASA because its fun. Let's keep it fun and safe while also fostering some healthy and friendly competition, whether in, or across classes, that will make us all better drivers, be great fun to participate in and be great fun for people to watch.

 

As far as the RD having the authority to black flag an off pace car, what exactly is the criteria? Does the CCR spell out a specific rule? If not, then perhaps the powers that be should set it up for our region and make it known prior to each race that if a slow car is not maintaing a minimum speed(time) then they will be black flagged.

 

Now another topic:

 

I think we should have drivers and crews outside their cars, at grid, for the national anthem before every race and a command for drivers to start their engines.

 

I think that their should be recognition of all HPDE drivers that are moved up from one run group to the next. This will give them a great sense of accomplishment and some well deserved recognition! Give them a certificate or something, it will foster a greater sense of loyalty to NASA NE.

 

Paul Plemenos

55 ST1

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Paisan
Mike,

 

Not an apple to apple comparison. There are only 2 classes in Grand-Am. We are running 10 classes in the Thunder Group.

 

Additionally there is great disparity between the ST and GT classes of Grand Am, so a broken field start makes sense.

 

Who's faster GTSU or SU? GTS5 or ST1? GTS4 or ST2? GTS3 or ST3? etc.; thats why we mix it up with people outside of our group, because we are wheel to wheel with those other classes of cars. It's good racing.

 

What happens if I'm the only guy in my class, am I to just go out and log laps? I hope that's not NASA's philosophy. I race in NASA because its fun. Let's keep it fun and safe while also fostering some healthy and friendly competition, whether in, or across classes, that will make us all better drivers, be great fun to participate in and be great fun for people to watch.

 

As far as the RD having the authority to black flag an off pace car, what exactly is the criteria? Does the CCR spell out a specific rule? If not, then perhaps the powers that be should set it up for our region and make it known prior to each race that if a slow car is not maintaing a minimum speed(time) then they will be black flagged.

 

Now another topic:

 

I think we should have drivers and crews outside their cars, at grid, for the national anthem before every race and a command for drivers to start their engines.

 

I think that their should be recognition of all HPDE drivers that are moved up from one run group to the next. This will give them a great sense of accomplishment and some well deserved recognition! Give them a certificate or something, it will foster a greater sense of loyalty to NASA NE.

 

Paul Plemenos

55 ST1

 

I agree with you on the safety of doing it straight by qualifying times, thats why it's been like that since forever

 

As far as setting a minimum speed, if the RD feels it is unsafe no matter what the speed, they should pull the car, I don't think a specific speed should be set as there are all kinds of factors. It is just part of being the RD.

 

If you look back about 2 or 3 years I suggested the Anthem be played as well. We did it 1x and no one followed up on it. Perhaps we can get someone to follow up this year on it.

 

The HPDE stuff is already in the works

 

-mike

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