darreng505 Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Hi, What is NASA's stance on the use of bolt in "harness bars" (for HPDE) that allow cars with (appropriate) factory or aftermarket seats to use 5 point harnesses? I'm interested in instructor's point of view on this as well. thanks. PS. I read the CCR and it doesn't explicitly address the use of only a harness bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braknl8 Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I'm not an instructor but lots of folks use harness bars and 5/6 points with a good seat in DE. However, don't do it without a hnr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diller Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I'm not an instructor but lots of folks use harness bars and 5/6 points with a good seat in DE. However, don't do it without a hnr Or at least some sort of additional rollover protection. Nothing against it in the rules and it is down to the individual instructor to let you know if he/she is comfortable with your safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Some organizations other than NASA have rules against it, so keep that in mind if you decide to use a harness bar and harnesses without rollover protection. Since you asked, as an instructor I am less than enthused about riding in a car with harnesses, a harness bar, and no rollbar or cage. I would rather take my chances with the OEM 3pt system allowing me to rotate my body forward and downward against the shoulder belt in a rollover versus keeping my body upright and my head and neck being the only thing allowed to move. In either situation, I wear a Simpson Safety Solutions R3 so my concerns are not from a head and neck restraint situation in a crash, but in what my body is allowed to do in a rollover situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooper93 Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Read this. It's an ongoing discussion about harness bars. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=100838 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixshooter Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 There are some bad stories on the internet about low quality Chinese harness bars failing catastrophically with some pretty sad outcomes. Just make sure to get a good one and ensure it isn't a knock off. And to second what was said by the instructor above, rollbars are our friend. I was in a rollover accident on a public roadway once and had the roof come in 12 inches and smash me down into the seat. I wish I had a rollbar then - a padded rollbar that wouldn't crack my melon open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogue55 Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I say stay away from Harness bars, on the street or track. I know this accident that I linked to has floated around a bit but it shows that even the Sparco bars will bend in an accident. In the link below, scroll down and you can see the picture of a honda civic that was in a front on collision. This is a SPARCO bar with 4 point harness. The bar bent under the weight of two people strapped in since there was not support from behind. One of the guys submarined out and was ejected from the car. I am less than impressed with sparcos hardware as of late. I took a seat out of my brothers car to put in mine. I bought a Planted seat bracket and there was a world of difference between that and the flimsy Sparco bracket that I took off the seat. I could bend the Sparco bracket with my bare hands. It is sad that Sparco sells that junk. http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/interior-mods/134349661-seat-belt-harness-bar.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooper93 Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Nasty looking accident. This is why I don't use a harness bar. Annihilator817 seems to contradict himself in that thread. Also, he obviously isn't aware of the newer 4 point harnesses that are FIA approved. SCHROTH has one that was manufactured with extra material on the outboard side and is designed to give way and that causes your upper body to rotate and NOT submarine out of your 4 point harness. How do I know? I own one. There is also nothing wrong with attaching a harness somewhere in the rear of the car as long as the angle of the shoulder harnesses are NOT below 20° from horizontal. I use the factory 3 point seat belt when I'm on track. My method is to slide the seat back a few notches, pull the seat belt tight, jerk it so it locks in place, then slide the seat back up until the seat belt is tight. On some newer cars, you can pull the seat belt all the way out and slowly let it retract. You may or may not hear a ratcheting sound as the belt retracts. This method automatically makes the seat belt lock. You can keep letting the belt retract until it is tight around your torso. The driver's side of my car (2002 Subaru WRX) won't do this method, but you can do it on the passenger side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox4life Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I use the factory 3 point seat belt when I'm on track. My method is to slide the seat back a few notches, pull the seat belt tight, jerk it so it locks in place, then slide the seat back up until the seat belt is tight. On some newer cars, you can pull the seat belt all the way out and slowly let it retract. You may or may not hear a ratcheting sound as the belt retracts. This method automatically makes the seat belt lock. You can keep letting the belt retract until it is tight around your torso. The driver's side of my car (2002 Subaru WRX) won't do this method, but you can do it on the passenger side. This was the same method I used before I put a harness bar in my car, and it actually seemed to work very well. The only thing I wondered about (and still do) is the effect of the seatbelt pretensioner system in the event of an accident. If you already have the belt cinched down tightly and then move the seat forward even more, and were involved in an accident that caused the pretensioner to do its job, what would happen? Would you be able to unbuckle the belt due to the tension on it, or have to cut it? I honestly dont know, and I couldnt seem to get a good answer from anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooper93 Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I use the factory 3 point seat belt when I'm on track. My method is to slide the seat back a few notches, pull the seat belt tight, jerk it so it locks in place, then slide the seat back up until the seat belt is tight. On some newer cars, you can pull the seat belt all the way out and slowly let it retract. You may or may not hear a ratcheting sound as the belt retracts. This method automatically makes the seat belt lock. You can keep letting the belt retract until it is tight around your torso. The driver's side of my car (2002 Subaru WRX) won't do this method, but you can do it on the passenger side. This was the same method I used before I put a harness bar in my car, and it actually seemed to work very well. The only thing I wondered about (and still do) is the effect of the seatbelt pretensioner system in the event of an accident. If you already have the belt cinched down tightly and then move the seat forward even more, and were involved in an accident that caused the pretensioner to do its job, what would happen? Would you be able to unbuckle the belt due to the tension on it, or have to cut it? I honestly dont know, and I couldnt seem to get a good answer from anyone. I was using this method when I wrecked my car at CMP (tire wall at about 75mph then trees at about 50-ish). All I had to do was slide the seat back a little and I was able to unbuckle the seat belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox4life Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Good to know, thanks for the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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