Balast question

[bmwjoon]

I'm going to cross post this too but I'm confused about the ballast rule in the CCR.

 

I understand the "you need at least one 3/8 inch bolt per every 10 pounds" which is fine.

 

But I have 2 weights, each 25 pounds. One located inside the car and the other directly on the other side of the sheet metal under the car for a total of 50#. So do I need 5 bolts going through both weights? Or do I need 6?

 

The reason I ask is if it's just a 25 lb block on it's own needs 3 bolts.

 

Jesus, I'm confusing myself. I'm going to apologize in advance for asking such a stupid question.

[RJ's325ITS]

I'm going to cross post this too but I'm confused about the ballast rule in the CCR.

 

I understand the "you need at least one 3/8 inch bolt per every 10 pounds" which is fine.

 

But I have 2 weights, each 25 pounds. One located inside the car and the other directly on the other side of the sheet metal under the car for a total of 50#. So do I need 5 bolts going through both weights? Or do I need 6?

 

The reason I ask is if it's just a 25 lb block on it's own needs 3 bolts.

 

Jesus, I'm confusing myself. I'm going to apologize in advance for asking such a stupid question.

 

 

my understanding of that rule is:

 

1. total weight has to be broken into 10lbs individual pieces (10lbs increments)

2. each 10lb piece needs 1 bolt.

3. each bolt had to be the allowed grade, IIRC 5.5 or higher.

4. use proper backing plates

 

so if I'm correct, your 25lbs block is out of rule, and if you would want to comply to the hardware part of it you will need 3 bolts per 25lbs; so 2 blocks = to 5 bolts

[D_Eclipse9916]

 

1. total weight has to be broken into 10lbs individual pieces (10lbs increments)

 

What?

[kbrew8991]

if GTS rules don't address ballast, you are stuck with the CCR's rules.

[bmwjoon]

I'm going to cross post this too but I'm confused about the ballast rule in the CCR.

 

I understand the "you need at least one 3/8 inch bolt per every 10 pounds" which is fine.

 

But I have 2 weights, each 25 pounds. One located inside the car and the other directly on the other side of the sheet metal under the car for a total of 50#. So do I need 5 bolts going through both weights? Or do I need 6?

 

The reason I ask is if it's just a 25 lb block on it's own needs 3 bolts.

 

Jesus, I'm confusing myself. I'm going to apologize in advance for asking such a stupid question.

 

 

my understanding of that rule is:

 

1. total weight has to be broken into 10lbs individual pieces (10lbs increments)

2. each 10lb piece needs 1 bolt.

3. each bolt had to be the allowed grade, IIRC 5.5 or higher.

4. use proper backing plates

 

so if I'm correct, your 25lbs block is out of rule, and if you would want to comply to the hardware part of it you will need 3 bolts per 25lbs; so 2 blocks = to 5 bolts

 

No that's not right, where does it say the weight has to be in 10 lb increments?

 

This is too confusing, I'm just going to use 6 bolts.

 

I've gotten a lot of suggestions not to put ballast outside the car. The irony is on almost every professional purpose built race car I've seen the ballast is on the outside of the vehicle. Normally a portion of the undertray.

[RJ's325ITS]

I'm going to cross post this too but I'm confused about the ballast rule in the CCR.

 

I understand the "you need at least one 3/8 inch bolt per every 10 pounds" which is fine.

 

But I have 2 weights, each 25 pounds. One located inside the car and the other directly on the other side of the sheet metal under the car for a total of 50#. So do I need 5 bolts going through both weights? Or do I need 6?

 

The reason I ask is if it's just a 25 lb block on it's own needs 3 bolts.

 

Jesus, I'm confusing myself. I'm going to apologize in advance for asking such a stupid question.

 

 

my understanding of that rule is:

 

1. total weight has to be broken into 10lbs individual pieces (10lbs increments)

2. each 10lb piece needs 1 bolt.

3. each bolt had to be the allowed grade, IIRC 5.5 or higher.

4. use proper backing plates

 

so if I'm correct, your 25lbs block is out of rule, and if you would want to comply to the hardware part of it you will need 3 bolts per 25lbs; so 2 blocks = to 5 bolts

 

No that's not right, where does it say the weight has to be in 10 lb increments?

 

This is too confusing, I'm just going to use 6 bolts.

 

I've gotten a lot of suggestions not to put ballast outside the car. The irony is on almost every professional purpose built race car I've seen the ballast is on the outside of the vehicle. Normally a portion of the undertray.

 

I stand incorrect, let me copy paste from the rule book:

 

15.20 Ballast

Unless superseded by class rules, all ballast shall be solid metal such as steel, lead, or uranium, and consist of

a minimum of five (5) pounds per piece. Each piece should be bolted in place with through-bolts, fender

washers, and a locking-nut / system (e.g. jam-nuts, Nylock, etc.). All bolts should be grade five (5). There

should be at least one 3/8” diameter, or larger bolt for every ten (10) pounds of weight (e.g. 20 pound block

uses two bolts). Nylock nuts or metal crimping lock nuts should not be reused

 

Note the part where they mention the 5lb minimun weight per piece, I dont know what rule book I was thinking of.... So there is a limit in the minimun weight, and a 1 bolt per every 10bs.

 

In some pro-series (LMP/GT/GTC) the weight has to be in a box, fab of especified wall thinkness, bolted to the passenger seat original anchor points, and in-case of a singel seater racecar somewhere in the cookpit in-front of the driver. I've also seen weights on the outside of the racecar in a special built-in indent compartment; the compartment allows the weight to seat above the lowest point of the floor of the racecar, including the harware that secures them to the chassis.

 

If I have to pick, I would mount them outside, in their own built compartment, w/the proper hardware, with 5lbs pieces for easy set up, but this is alot of farbication. The easyest would be pass/side seat anchor points!

[scottbm3]

Please keep your 25lb block of metal inside the car. I've been around a lot of different types of race cars and never really seen any ballast hung on the outside of the car. If it's inside and for some reason comes loose it's confined to the cockpit, but if it's on the outside and comes off, someone or thing could suffer some severe damage from it !

 

 

-Scott B.

[JSG1901]

Note the part where they mention the 5lb minimun weight per piece, I don't know what rule book I was thinking of.... So there is a limit in the minimun weight, and a 1 bolt per every 10bs.

I think the goal here was to keep people from using very small items for ballast, like sand or buckshot or ball bearings. That way, we don't end up with a track covered in ball bearings when something goes wrong.

[bmwjoon]

Scott,

 

A 25 lb piece of lead with 6 3/8 bolts in it shouldn't fall off the car.

 

If you look at a BMW M3 GT the undertray, when removed has about 50 lbs of lead bolted to it with a lot less bolts then we are talking about here.

[scottbm3]

Note the part where they mention the 5lb minimun weight per piece, I don't know what rule book I was thinking of.... So there is a limit in the minimun weight, and a 1 bolt per every 10bs.

I think the goal here was to keep people from using very small items for ballast, like sand or buckshot or ball bearings. That way, we don't end up with a track covered in ball bearings when something goes wrong.

 

I know someone that will remain unnamed that did just that a few years ago at Putnam. They used shot and the container did not hold and there were little BB's everywhere !!

 

 

-Scott B.

[JSG1901]

Note the part where they mention the 5lb minimun weight per piece, I don't know what rule book I was thinking of.... So there is a limit in the minimun weight, and a 1 bolt per every 10bs.

I think the goal here was to keep people from using very small items for ballast, like sand or buckshot or ball bearings. That way, we don't end up with a track covered in ball bearings when something goes wrong.

 

I know someone that will remain unnamed that did just that a few years ago at Putnam. They used shot and the container did not hold and there were little BB's everywhere !!

 

 

-Scott B.

Yep. I was there. That's how I know what the rules DON'T want to happen!

[doclouns]

So I have 2 half inch bolts securing each 40 lb lead bar....with backing plates.

Am I in violation?

Edited March 26, 2013 by Guest

[Eric W.]

Note the part where they mention the 5lb minimun weight per piece, I don't know what rule book I was thinking of.... So there is a limit in the minimun weight, and a 1 bolt per every 10bs.

I think the goal here was to keep people from using very small items for ballast, like sand or buckshot or ball bearings. That way, we don't end up with a track covered in ball bearings when something goes wrong.

 

I think the CCRs need to be clarified. Just like how Joon is confused, Ive also had a lot of people ask me if they need like a bazillion bolts to hold down some heavy block....

[cstreit911]

I know someone that will remain unnamed that did just that a few years ago at Putnam. They used shot and the container did not hold and there were little BB's everywhere !!

-Scott B.

 

Damn... There goes my planned defense for 2013.

[doclouns]

So I have 2 half inch bolts securing each 40 lb lead bar....with backing plates.

Am I in violation?

 

 

Anyone???

[scottbm3]

So I have 2 half inch bolts securing each 40 lb lead bar....with backing plates.

Am I in violation?

 

 

Anyone???

 

I guess I'll answer, as the silence could have been a hint . If you have 40lbs and 2 bolts then technically yes you are. As Eric stated it really need to be re-written or better defined as there are types of ballast mounting that a far better than stated in the rule. I think the one bolt for every ten lbs is a bit much. As it's written if you had 11lbs you would need 2 bolts and 21lbs 3 bolts etc etc....... It really hasn't been an issue at any races that I know of !

 

 

-Scott B.

[doclouns]

Lol, nobody has said a word for two years...Now I gotta sweat it, who brought this up???? Anybody know how hard it is to drill a hole through a lead bar?

[cstreit911]

Just push REAL hard untill the bit starts to heat up to the melting point of lead.

 

I've had reasonable luck with stepper bits for some reason they seem to work better.

[doclouns]

Thx! Ill look up stepper bits...

[kbrew8991]

You can get GTS to write it's own rule on ballast which would supersede the CCR's rule if you guys wanted...

[scottbm3]

Lol, nobody has said a word for two years...Now I gotta sweat it, who brought this up???? Anybody know how hard it is to drill a hole through a lead bar?

 

Mark,

 

Lead is very soft and real easy to drill. Sometimes to easy and it clogs up the bit !! I have steel plates and they are much harder to drill. Joon brought it up as a general question as regards to the wording in the NASA rule book. You'll be fine

 

 

-Scott B.

[Eric W.]

You can get GTS to write it's own rule on ballast which would supersede the CCR's rule if you guys wanted...

 

Too late to do that for 2013 though. (I think?)

 

Scott, can we just amend GTS rules to read more along the lines of lead shot is not allowed, but SOLID ballast (ie. not a ballast box filled w/ shot) may be secured by 1-2 bolts?

[John Graber]

Here's my understanding of this rule.......................

Alternative methods for securing ballast are acceptable if approved by the local Tech Inspector. The intent was to add a level of safety to the installation of ballast and the wording was a just a starting point.

 

Consider this, most have a 50-60lb battery secured by a couple 1/4x20 bolts and sheetmetal....

[Zach H.]

I have to agree with John here. I think its more of "rule of thumb"/Don't be an idiot when mounting projectiles in the cockpit of your car. as stated before the rule says "grade 5 bolt" as well. if you are unsure why not be safe and use grade 8? Joon I would not sandwich the ballast the way you stated before. ballast outside the car is not dangerous as long as it is secured properly.

[doclouns]

Is lead shot inside a stainless, purpose-built, bolted shut ballast box still acceptable by the current rules?