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PaulieP55

How about moving GTS3 to the Lightning race group?!

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PaulieP55

Guys,

 

Can we please consider moving the GTS3 class to the Lightning Race group to more equally balance the cars in each race?

 

Does anyone else think this is a good idea?

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pcdrj

Without the GTS3 class both groups are virtually the same size therefore whichever group they're in will be much larger. The speed differential in the lightning group would raise safety concerns. We actually saw some of that last year during some mixed group races.

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PaulieP55

With the GTS3 cars in the Thunder group, there are 41 cars. In the Lightning group there are 22 cars.

 

That's a differential of 19 cars.

 

If you add GTS3 to the Lightning group it will be a differnetial of 9 cars.

 

The great disparity came when we had a sinlge race group from SU to SM on the track at the same time.

 

Here are the facts as pulled from MyLaps:

 

In last year's race April race at NJMP Lightning, the speed differential between the fastest car (#33) in SU and the slowest car in GTS3 was a 19.02 mph which equates to 16 seconds in lap time.

 

The fastest GTS3 car lap time and speed were 1:12.28 and 92.142 and the slowest SM registered for the race is only a 12 second differential and a 12 mile an hour differential.

 

So tell me where the greater disparity would be, between SU and GTS3 or GTS3 and SM. I just proved to you that it's the latter.

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Paisan

Don't forget to take into account that you are using an outlying car in your calculations. You need to take a distribution of those speeds to get a better picture.

 

Mike

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Paisan

As for car splits we are too far out to actually know what the split will be on the day of the event.

 

Mike

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pcdrj

Not sure of the math here as some more have have been added since my post but as of this post, if you remove GTS3 there are 27 in Thunder and 22 in Lightning. Again, they GTS3 is the big group which will definitely make one group much larger. If you look back at the times from last year, discounting ST/SU, the GTS3 class is essentially mid pack in all other Thunder groups (GTSx, AI, AIX, etc).

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Paisan

Also you can't use an absolute speed differential. A speed differential at SU speeds is very different than the same speed differential as SM speeds additionally higher top speeds should be accounted for as well as avg speeds don't tell the whole picture either.

 

No pony in this race just pointing out other factors to take I to consideration.

 

Mike

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rickg87

Looks like many more high HP cars this year in Thunder than I can remember. 8 SU, 2 ST1, and 2 GTS5, not to mention the ST2 cars are fast.

I would think there could be more potential problems arising in that situation with 40+ cars on track than if GTS3 runs in lightning.

If the car count works, it makes sense to me to have less cars in the high HP group.

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Paisan

My personal feeling is that the split should be based on car count alone. If a racer can't deal with speed differentials then they should not be racing. They are unqualified to race if they are complaining about speed differentials.

 

Mike

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PaulieP55

I started this thread asking to more fairly equalize the car count. I only jumped into the speed and time differential debate when it was brought up.

 

The differential as of right now is 41 cars in Thunder and 22 in Lightning. That's a 19 car differential.

If you moved GTS3 to Lightning, it would be a 9 car differential. What's not to understand?

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Paisan

We will address it when we are much closer to the event date. Anything done this early is pure speculation.

 

Mike

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rickg87

They are unqualified to race if they are complaining about speed differentials.

 

Mike

 

Nice!

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Paisan

Yup. If you can't handle yourself or your car at speeds then you shouldn't be racing. A true racer can manuver themselves through slower traffic safely. It is part of racing.

 

Mike

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PaulieP55

I don't advocate insults in a healthy discussion.

 

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, especially those that are DOING THE RACING AND PAYING TO DO SO!!!!!!!!

 

Speed differential between cars is a safety issue at every level of racing. That's why cars off pace are black flagged in NASCAR, F1, INDY, GRAND -AM, etc.

 

I don't believe that Rick's comment or Paul Redante's comments were worthy of your insults regarding driving ability when everyone's primary focus is safety!!

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Paisan

It isn't an attack on anyone at all and was not directed to either of them. Yes, safety is our number one priority however this is a dangerous sport. If someone is grossly under speed yes, but unlike professional racing, part of club racing is dealing with slower traffic. It is an unfortunate thing about club racing. As a good club racer one should easily be able to navigate around a slower moving vehicle.

 

As for your jab about doing it and paying for it, I pay for it by volunteering since 2002 putting in countless hours, taking off unpaid vacation days etc. I am also a racer as well. If it were not for folks volunteering, these races would not exist.

 

Mike

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PaulieP55

Mike,

 

The posts were a healthy exchange of people expressing an opinion. We don't need a "devil's advocate" to try and discredit all sides of a discussion so that you can appear omnipotent.

 

It was civil until you started throwing around insults.

 

Thank you for volunteering and all the sacrifices you make, however, that's not a license to be rood. In fact, as a NASA representative I would think that you should be more conscious of what you write and how you write it so there is no chance that it could be misconstrued as a jab at someone.

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Paisan

Again, no jabs were even hinted at. I was merely pointing out that someone who cannot deal efficiently with slower moving traffic should perhaps wait until they have more experience in DE before jumping into racing. Use the slower traffic as a learning experience and a challenge to push yourself to learn and adapt.

 

Again none of my statements were even remotely a jab at anyone, especially those posting in this thread.

 

Mike

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EdP

I've run with both GTS-3 and SpecE30 when we've combined the Thunder/Lightning race groups. I had a blast when I ran GTS-3 and had to move through slower Lightning traffic. Not so much, though, when I ran SpecE30, which is what I currently drive. Watching your mirrors for faster cars, and giving away corners, is a different and much less fun experience.

 

From my seat-of-the-pants experience, the GTS-3 cars fit better in Thunder in terms of the speed differences. You're also keeping 13/13-classed cars together, which is probably a good thing. My faster SpecE30 brothers are pedaling their cars at 10/10ths pretty much all the time, and we have different rules (and expectations) regarding minor body contact.

 

Just my two cents.

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