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JSG1901

GTS sticker application tips

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JSG1901

I've had a number of questions about positioning/repositioning the new GTS stickers, so I went back to our supplier and here's what he had to say:

For the GTS stickers, we use Oracal brand vinyl, specifically:

 

Orajet 3551

- 2.75 mil High Performance Calendered PVC Gloss

- 7 Year Outdoor durability

- Grey opaque repositionable/permanent solvent adhesive with clean removability for 4 years

- Great for vehicle graphics and wraps

 

It is being laminiated with Oraguard 290 Gloss, the manufacturer's recommended laminate.

 

Heat will absolutely help the decals conform to vehicle contours.

 

Also, using a squeegee on the leading edge to apply pressure as it goes down should help get the air out.

 

FYI: The repositionable/permanent information in the spec indicates a 2-stage adhesive, meaning it can be lightly placed into position, pulled up and repositioned, and then when heavier pressure is applied with a squeegee, it activates the layer of the "permanent" adhesive.

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delirium45

Scott,

 

I've received a couple of comments from folks with BMW E36 chassis vehicles finding it difficult to get the decal to fit 'neatly' on the front bumper. Basically, the bumper portion is not tall enough for the decal, without it running over different trim or edges.

 

1) Is trimming the decal to fit okay ?

2) Is placing the decal above the headlight on the hood okay ? (it is currently outside the sited location for front placement, but is definitely readable from front of car.

 

decal_placement.gif

 

I'm fine with either option here locally, but i wanted to understand what scrutiny these folks might face at Nationals.

 

Thanks in advance !

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JSG1901

Hi Garrett,

 

I've heard the same complaint. Unfortunately, I don't have an E36 here in front of me to look at the problem with a sticker in hand, so I'm answering without good information.

 

Having said that, trimming the stickers down to make them easy to fit pretty much defeats the purpose of the larger stickers, which is to increase visibility. If it's the only choice, and it can be seen easily from directly in front of the car, putting it just above the right-side headlight would probably be acceptable, but if it were my car I think it would look a lot better placed more like that shown in the image below.

 

E36Front.jpg

 

Yes, it has to go over a few bumps and lumps but these stickers are made from the same material that's used for full-vehicle wraps. A little massaging and some heat should make them able to conform to just about anything.

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ronh21
... but if it were my car I think it would look a lot better placed more like that shown in the image below.

 

But it doesn't fit there untrimmed unless you put about the top 1/4 up onto the trim piece, which would look pretty bad. I think I'd put it on the headlight first. Right now it's at the front of the hood, but I get that it's not legal there yet.

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TheSonn

Ditto with the e30. There's even less space on the front of an e30 than on the e36. Unless you happen to have a big front air dam, the "tallest" dimension on the front of an e30 is 2-and 3/4- inches (that's on the bumper). On the rear of the car, the only place to put the sticker is on the license plate panel. Only problem with putting it there is that's the only place to put your 4-inch tall car numbers. The vertical surface of the trunk is only 3 inches tall. Suggestions? - where to "stick it."

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delirium45

Okay, sounds like i'm not the only one hearing/having this issue.

 

Not totally unheard of, given that this is a first season requirement, we're bound to have some learning.

 

I am being pretty particular about making sure that the decal is easily and obviously legible at speed (both from the stands and in-car, on-track). It sounds like some flexibility is allowed to make it fit, as long as the purpose is not defeated. I just wanted to make sure that for folks that had to 'massage' the location/shape a little to work for their vehicle shapes, that they would not face challenges at the National event later this year.

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JSG1901
I am being pretty particular about making sure that the decal is easily and obviously legible at speed (both from the stands and in-car, on-track). It sounds like some flexibility is allowed to make it fit, as long as the purpose is not defeated. I just wanted to make sure that for folks that had to 'massage' the location/shape a little to work for their vehicle shapes, that they would not face challenges at the National event later this year.

As you say, it's a first-year effort. There were a few goals we were specifically trying to achieve with the placement guidelines.

 

The front and rear stickers are on opposite corners of the car so that regardless of which side of the track a spectator is positioned on, one of the stickers would be on the half of the car nearest them. And, we specified which sticker goes on which side so that all of the cars going toward or away from a viewer would have their stickers on the same side. The goal here, obviously, is making it easier for spectators, friends, and family to know who's racing whom. The allowable placement areas in both the front and rear, of course, include the central license plate area which, as pointed out elsewhere, is plenty big (if you have at license plate area...more of a problem at the front).

 

At both the front and rear, we also want them to be easily visible both by cars ahead and behind, and by the Impound folks who generally only see cars coming directly toward them. To accomplish both these goals means the stickers need to be placed on a reasonably upright surface. Sticking them way up on the hood--as I've seen one or two photos of--does nothing for anyone as they're hard to read from the front, they're not located in a consistent area, etc.

 

The ones on the sides were specified to be in the area between the wheel wells because some cars have so much stuff going on with them graphically (whether that's because of a crazy wrap or lots of sponsor stickers) that it's hard to find ANYTHING on them, so we tried to keep the GTS stickers in a smaller general area while still giving drivers enough flexibility to fit the GTS stickers into their overall graphics package. Again, this was to make it easier--particularly for spectators--to figure out who's in what class. That's also the reason they are so big and in different colors for each class: To make them easy to recognize and identify from a distance.

 

Given this, and recognizing we are all trying to solve some challenges here, speaking as the person who would be the stick in your side at Nationals this year, I can tell you that if you have made a reasonable effort to address the above goals and the configuration of your car requires something that's close but isn't quite exactly what's specified in the letter of the law, you'll be fine.

 

I would greatly appreciate folks posting photos of their solutions to these challenges here so I/we can see the specific issues we're all dealing with. There's no reason we can't eventually tweak what's in the rules if we need to but before we just make a knee-jerk reaction I'd prefer everyone try to meet the letter (or at least the spirit) of the rules as they are today.

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JSG1901
... but if it were my car I think it would look a lot better placed more like that shown in the image below.

 

But it doesn't fit there untrimmed unless you put about the top 1/4 up onto the trim piece, which would look pretty bad. I think I'd put it on the headlight first. Right now it's at the front of the hood, but I get that it's not legal there yet.

Actually, the way I have it positioned in my (admittedly faked) photo, it would overlap most of the trim piece. I suspect it will look weird for about half an hour and then we'll all stop noticing it. And, nobody will notice it on the track. Again, if it were my car, I'd much rather run over a little trim on the bumper than stick it way up on the hood...but that's just me.

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scottbm3
... but if it were my car I think it would look a lot better placed more like that shown in the image below.

 

But it doesn't fit there untrimmed unless you put about the top 1/4 up onto the trim piece, which would look pretty bad. I think I'd put it on the headlight first. Right now it's at the front of the hood, but I get that it's not legal there yet.

Actually, the way I have it positioned in my (admittedly faked) photo, it would overlap most of the trim piece. I suspect it will look weird for about half an hour and then we'll all stop noticing it. And, nobody will notice it on the track. Again, if it were my car, I'd much rather run over a little trim on the bumper than stick it way up on the hood...but that's just me.

 

Unless that piece of trim needs to come on and off to get to the mount points for the BMW bumper reinforcement and the pesky plastic bumper support brackets that break on the E36 front bumpers. Do you think it would be visible enough if it were put on the hood area where the tow sticker is on your photoshop pic ?

 

-Scott B

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magnetic1

I just cut the sticker so part of it goes on the black trim and the other part below... the full sticker is still there. Ill try to dig up a pic.

 

So obviously on the wrong side (my fault) on the yellow car. Pretty much cut sticker into two pieces so it could fit over the stock, black E36 M3 trim.

 

480836_10151532303439292_1407403665_n.jpg

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flink

I sorta jammed it on there and it made a mess.

 

CSRG0885.JPG

 

My pack of decals came with an undersized one, which is what I used on the rear bumper - I couldn't find anywhere sane to put the large decal.

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JSG1901
So obviously on the wrong side (my fault) on the yellow car. Pretty much cut sticker into two pieces so it could fit over the stock, black E36 M3 trim.

 

480836_10151532303439292_1407403665_n.jpg

Acknowledging that the yellow car has its stickers on the wrong side, look how much easier it is to figure out the classes of both the cars in Eric's photo (above) vs the classes of the cars in the photo below (from last year):

 

GTS_MO.png

 

All three of these cars are GTS3 but other than the 3s on the windshield, you'd have a pretty hard time figuring it out. This is really a pretty good example of why we're doing this in the first place, teething pains and all.

 

In answer to Scotty B's question earlier about putting the stickers above the headlight, I have to say that the way the white car in Eric's photo has his is a LOT better option in terms of visibility. The problem is, the larger the area we allow the stickers to fall into, the harder it will be for everyone to figure out where they are.

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JSG1901
I sorta jammed it on there and it made a mess.

 

CSRG0885.JPG

 

My pack of decals came with an undersized one, which is what I used on the rear bumper - I couldn't find anywhere sane to put the large decal.

This looks great. The small one is actually an extra for your toolbox or tow vehicle. Much rather you had the bigger one on the back for the same reason we have a big one on the front.

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RSCoupe

Any thoughts on where to put the front sticker for me?

 

59166_431439963226_3560646_n.jpg

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D_Eclipse9916

 

In answer to Scotty B's question earlier about putting the stickers above the headlight, I have to say that the way the white car in Eric's photo has his is a LOT better option in terms of visibility. The problem is, the larger the area we allow the stickers to fall into, the harder it will be for everyone to figure out where they are.

 

 

Would this be "protested" at nationals? (wrong side of rear bumper, but I didnt want it interfering with the tow hook...and it would be horrendously ugly on the trunk)

 

553221_10151532291169292_648827478_n.jpg

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flink
The small one is actually an extra for your toolbox or tow vehicle. Much rather you had the bigger one on the back for the same reason we have a big one on the front.

 

I assumed as much OK, I'll have another go at grafting the big one in there somehow.

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JSG1901

 

In answer to Scotty B's question earlier about putting the stickers above the headlight, I have to say that the way the white car in Eric's photo has his is a LOT better option in terms of visibility. The problem is, the larger the area we allow the stickers to fall into, the harder it will be for everyone to figure out where they are.

 

 

Would this be "protested" at nationals? (wrong side of rear bumper, but I didnt want it interfering with the tow hook...and it would be horrendously ugly on the trunk)

 

553221_10151532291169292_648827478_n.jpg

I have no way of knowing what would be protested. Protests are a driver decision. Having said that, it should be on the other side or in the middle. How about swapping the NASA sticker to the right and centering the GTS one?

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JSG1901
Any thoughts on where to put the front sticker for me?

 

59166_431439963226_3560646_n.jpg

Jesus, Mark. I hope you got a discount from the screen door shop!

 

Assuming your headlights are screens, too, you're about going to have to put it somewhere on the leading edge of the hood. If the headlights are not screens, it could go there. Damn. Does any air go around that car?

 

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cstreit911

Don't worry Scott... I got it done for him...

 

MarkWonderbread1366230918.jpg

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doclouns

I believe I may have asked this before, but does (shouldn't) the windshield qualify for the front decal? Lower passenger side, semi-vertical, and clearly visible. If someone is right on your rear bumper, the front decal is not visible on their bumper cover.

photodut.jpgUploaded with ImageShack.us

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JSG1901
I believe I may have asked this before, but does (shouldn't) the windshield qualify for the front decal? Lower passenger side, semi-vertical, and clearly visible. If someone is right on your rear bumper, the front decal is not visible on their bumper cover.

photodut.jpgUploaded with ImageShack.us

Mark,

 

It's a good question. The "problem," if you will, is we're trying to reduce the area you (and spectators and others) have to scan to find the stickers. The more area we allow, obviously the easier it is to find a place to position it, but the harder it is to actually, visually, locate when the cars are going by at 100+ mph in the middle of a pack of competitors.

 

For instance, look at Eric Wong's photo a few posts back where his yellow car's front sticker is on the wrong side of the bumper. Even though it's actually closer to being in the "right" place than yours at the top of the hood, it is surprisingly hard to quickly pick up visually.

 

What we're trying to do is twofold. First, to have the stickers positioned as vertically as possible to make them easier to read from in front (a competitor) or from a bit to the side (a spectator). Second, we're trying to limit them to a relatively small area so everyone, competitors and spectators both, know within a few feet where the class designation is going to be.

 

If you think about it, it's the same reason we had the yellow reversed class numbers all in the upper passenger-side window position when we were using them. Although, technically, anywhere else on the windshield would have been equally visible, as soon as you start letting people move them around you go from having to scan a couple of square feet of window to probably five times that and, as a result, the number becomes vastly harder to quickly locate.

 

So, that's a really long answer to why the windshield doesn't qualify...unless you're doing it like Chris Streit's example for Mark Siggelkow's Audi. If you want to do it that way, knock yourself out.

 

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doclouns

Scott

Thanks for the response.

I guess I'll have to respectfully disagree on the visibilty issue for the racer in front. The decal will probably not be visible until the trailing car is at least 20 feet back given the low seating position of the leading driver and the low position of the decal. For us old folks, color will be the key...Seems to me that there was a reason we all put the old numbers on the windshield and not the bumper.

But rules is rules...Moving it today (I hope, ugh)

Mark

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RSCoupe
Don't worry Scott... I got it done for him...

 

MarkWonderbread1366230918.jpg

 

 

That would be a cool sun visor for in the paddock.

 

I HATE that color green...

 

Scott, what if I have it where the old one is, on the hood, integrated into the number plate.

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JSG1901
Scott

Thanks for the response.

I guess I'll have to respectfully disagree on the visibilty issue for the racer in front. The decal will probably not be visible until the trailing car is at least 20 feet back given the low seating position of the leading driver and the low position of the decal. For us old folks, color will be the key...Seems to me that there was a reason we all put the old numbers on the windshield and not the bumper.

But rules is rules...Moving it today (I hope, ugh)

Mark

I understand your point, honest. Try a little heat to get it off with if it doesn't come right away.

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JSG1901
That would be a cool sun visor for in the paddock.

 

I HATE that color green...

 

Scott, what if I have it where the old one is, on the hood, integrated into the number plate.

Mark, the problem with that is that it's not only hard to read, it's on the wrong side of the car. Two strikes. How about something more along these lines (maybe make a number plate around it if you like)?

 

Siggelkow.jpg

 

I'm not sure it wouldn't look better over the right headlight. It's hard to tell the exact sizes here but another possibility--if it fits--would be to wrap around the bumper above the lower canard with some of the GTS sticker on the red and some of it extending onto the canard itself. (There may not be enough room to pull that off)

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