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Another seatbelt question


Xander52
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Seems like a lot of money for a band aid solution. I would get the full 5/6 point harness unless your seat doesn't have the proper sub hole.

 

If you do get the ASM belt, be prepared to have to justify it to every instructor you get as not many people are comfortable or knowledgeable about the ASM belts.

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You bring up 2 great points. Im leaning towards an asm that is expandable to a 6. My car is not a dedicated race car. Seems a bit much to go get ice cream with wife and son.

Safety equipment is more important than hp but I didn't think it would cost more than hp. Hahaha.

I used to ride motorcycles and I remember a sign that said "if you have a cheap head buy a cheap helmet" hilarious.

 

Btw like the quote at bottom of your posts.

 

Thanks again.

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I was never told I needed a Sub belt.

Is it in the CCR?

 

A little reading from the CCR:::

 

15.5

Driver restraint system(See diagram at end of section)

1. All vehicles should have a five (5), six (6), or seven (7) point seat belt system. Arm restraints

are required in open cars and cars with: Open T-tops, Open Targa tops, missing moon/sun roofs, or glassmoon/sun roofs.

2. A five (5) point system consists of: a lap belt, two (2) shoulder belts, and anti-submarine strap.

3. A six (6) point system is recommended for cars where the driver is seated in an upright (to thirty

(30) degrees) or a semi-reclining position. It consists of two (2) anti-submarine belts in addition to lap

and shoulder belts.

4. A seven (7) point system is recommended for seat s with more than thirty (30) degrees of incline.

5. The material of all straps should be in new or perfect condition. The buckles should be metal quick

release. There should be a single point of release for all belts.

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15.5 is in the racer's section

 

HPDE people should be looking at 11.3.2, 11.4.8, etc. Though the seat belt areas of those parts of the CCRs do refer you to the Racer's 15.5 rule in certain situations.

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Certain modifications to your car will place you under different guidelines. I believe not having stock seats with a stock restraint system requires you to have a different harness. In my case I have sparco seats with 4 point harness. NASA requires sub belt for my application or 4 pt schroth asm.

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I think for HPDE you can use the oem belts with an aftermarket seat.

what does 11.4.8 say, last sentence in particular

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I think for HPDE you can use the oem belts with an aftermarket seat.

what does 11.4.8 say, last sentence in particular

He didn't specifically say hard shell, fixed back racing seats. He only said aftermarket.

 

Recaro_Speed.jpg

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touche fellow rules lawyer

 

Anywho, know what the rule says. Thinking you know what it says doesn't always work out so well.

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I think for HPDE you can use the oem belts with an aftermarket seat.

what does 11.4.8 say, last sentence in particular

 

"Stock / OEM belts should not be worn with hard shell, fixed back racing seats. Those seats should have a racing harness."

 

Yikes, I missed that because I have been considering a fixed back racing seat with the oem belts until I could afford a real roll bar and real harness. Just curious, does the "should not" in this sentence imply some wiggle room or does it really mean "shall not"?

I could swear I have seen oem belts used with fixed back racing seats at NASA HPDE events......possibly even ridden with an instructor with this set up on the passneger side.....I could (easily) be mistaken or maybe they slipped past tech?

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Page 1 of the CCRs:

Editorial Note:

The word “should” is used throughout this rulebook; and in order to fully grasp its meaning, the following

explanations have been created. When the word “should” is used, it can be taken to mean that something

should be done in accordance with this book, or the driver can expect the stewards to disallow track time, if they

catch the issue. The reason that it’s stated as “should,” is to add emphasis that it’s really, and ultimately, the

driver’s responsibility. Because Inspectors, Instructors, Flaggers, and Officials in general, are human, it is an

assumed risk of this activity that a mistake can be made. Therefore, the driver is ultimately held responsible for

his or her own safety.

Furthermore, the word “should” also makes an implication of fallibility and/or corrects false expectations. For

example, “the flagger should display a yellow flag,” the yellow flag in question may not be shown because 1) it

relies on the flagger’s judgment, and that can be subjective, and 2) the flagger is human and can make a

mistake. Therefore, if one is not willing to risk their safety because they expect other people to be perfect, then

they cannot participate in NASA.

To sum it up, the word “should” can be construed in the context of these examples:

a) “The driver should have roll cage padding (if they expect to be let on track).”

b) “The official should check for roll cage padding (implying that, even though they do their best, the

Inspectors can miss something).

emphasis added

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I only stay sharp by reading the board and answering questions like this

Ditto.

 

And yes, read the CC&R as many times as you can. You don't have to read the entire thing more than once BUT definitely go over certain sections multiple times.

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and even then, once you've gotten the top 5 or so common mistakes down, the rest of the questions usually just spark a "hey, that's addressed in this area but I'm not 100% sure so let me go read that one, copy, paste, boom answered".

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Well, I'm glad this came up because I was about to pull the trigger on a race seat with no harness bar or roll bar. At this point I'll just wait.

 

And apologies to the OP....but why is it that you "should not" use the oem seat belt with a fixed back race seat. Many of them will accomodate the oem belt equally as well as the oem or aftermarket adjustable seat? Just curious...not questioning the rules.

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NASA is more qualified to answer this question but...... oem belts were tested and passed using that specific setup. If you mix and match you could end up with a Franken setup that could actually be more dangerous.

In my case I have a Sparco seat that you would find in the street section. I am in the process of getting 4 pt Schroth asm belts to fulfill the requirement.

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