Xander52 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 I currently have a slightly modified 69 camaro. It has a roll cage with a 4point sparco harness. Went to hpde1 at njmp, phenomenal job by all of NASA, and was told I needed a submarine belt. My question is can I Use schroth 4 point harness with asm? Here is link: www.schrothracing.com/competition/profi ... ofi-II-asm Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diller Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Seems like a lot of money for a band aid solution. I would get the full 5/6 point harness unless your seat doesn't have the proper sub hole. If you do get the ASM belt, be prepared to have to justify it to every instructor you get as not many people are comfortable or knowledgeable about the ASM belts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander52 Posted May 7, 2013 Author Share Posted May 7, 2013 You bring up 2 great points. Im leaning towards an asm that is expandable to a 6. My car is not a dedicated race car. Seems a bit much to go get ice cream with wife and son. Safety equipment is more important than hp but I didn't think it would cost more than hp. Hahaha. I used to ride motorcycles and I remember a sign that said "if you have a cheap head buy a cheap helmet" hilarious. Btw like the quote at bottom of your posts. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red00gt Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 I was never told I needed a Sub belt. Is it in the CCR? A little reading from the CCR::: 15.5 Driver restraint system(See diagram at end of section) 1. All vehicles should have a five (5), six (6), or seven (7) point seat belt system. Arm restraints are required in open cars and cars with: Open T-tops, Open Targa tops, missing moon/sun roofs, or glassmoon/sun roofs. 2. A five (5) point system consists of: a lap belt, two (2) shoulder belts, and anti-submarine strap. 3. A six (6) point system is recommended for cars where the driver is seated in an upright (to thirty (30) degrees) or a semi-reclining position. It consists of two (2) anti-submarine belts in addition to lap and shoulder belts. 4. A seven (7) point system is recommended for seat s with more than thirty (30) degrees of incline. 5. The material of all straps should be in new or perfect condition. The buckles should be metal quick release. There should be a single point of release for all belts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 15.5 is in the racer's section HPDE people should be looking at 11.3.2, 11.4.8, etc. Though the seat belt areas of those parts of the CCRs do refer you to the Racer's 15.5 rule in certain situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander52 Posted May 8, 2013 Author Share Posted May 8, 2013 Certain modifications to your car will place you under different guidelines. I believe not having stock seats with a stock restraint system requires you to have a different harness. In my case I have sparco seats with 4 point harness. NASA requires sub belt for my application or 4 pt schroth asm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n80 Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 I think for HPDE you can use the oem belts with an aftermarket seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 I think for HPDE you can use the oem belts with an aftermarket seat. what does 11.4.8 say, last sentence in particular Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 I think for HPDE you can use the oem belts with an aftermarket seat. what does 11.4.8 say, last sentence in particular He didn't specifically say hard shell, fixed back racing seats. He only said aftermarket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 touche fellow rules lawyer Anywho, know what the rule says. Thinking you know what it says doesn't always work out so well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n80 Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 I think for HPDE you can use the oem belts with an aftermarket seat. what does 11.4.8 say, last sentence in particular "Stock / OEM belts should not be worn with hard shell, fixed back racing seats. Those seats should have a racing harness." Yikes, I missed that because I have been considering a fixed back racing seat with the oem belts until I could afford a real roll bar and real harness. Just curious, does the "should not" in this sentence imply some wiggle room or does it really mean "shall not"? I could swear I have seen oem belts used with fixed back racing seats at NASA HPDE events......possibly even ridden with an instructor with this set up on the passneger side.....I could (easily) be mistaken or maybe they slipped past tech? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Page 1 of the CCRs: Editorial Note:The word “should” is used throughout this rulebook; and in order to fully grasp its meaning, the following explanations have been created. When the word “should” is used, it can be taken to mean that something should be done in accordance with this book, or the driver can expect the stewards to disallow track time, if they catch the issue. The reason that it’s stated as “should,” is to add emphasis that it’s really, and ultimately, the driver’s responsibility. Because Inspectors, Instructors, Flaggers, and Officials in general, are human, it is an assumed risk of this activity that a mistake can be made. Therefore, the driver is ultimately held responsible for his or her own safety. Furthermore, the word “should” also makes an implication of fallibility and/or corrects false expectations. For example, “the flagger should display a yellow flag,” the yellow flag in question may not be shown because 1) it relies on the flagger’s judgment, and that can be subjective, and 2) the flagger is human and can make a mistake. Therefore, if one is not willing to risk their safety because they expect other people to be perfect, then they cannot participate in NASA. To sum it up, the word “should” can be construed in the context of these examples: a) “The driver should have roll cage padding (if they expect to be let on track).” b) “The official should check for roll cage padding (implying that, even though they do their best, the Inspectors can miss something). emphasis added Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n80 Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 I need to read the CCR again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 I only stay sharp by reading the board and answering questions like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 I only stay sharp by reading the board and answering questions like this Ditto. And yes, read the CC&R as many times as you can. You don't have to read the entire thing more than once BUT definitely go over certain sections multiple times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 and even then, once you've gotten the top 5 or so common mistakes down, the rest of the questions usually just spark a "hey, that's addressed in this area but I'm not 100% sure so let me go read that one, copy, paste, boom answered". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n80 Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Well, I'm glad this came up because I was about to pull the trigger on a race seat with no harness bar or roll bar. At this point I'll just wait. And apologies to the OP....but why is it that you "should not" use the oem seat belt with a fixed back race seat. Many of them will accomodate the oem belt equally as well as the oem or aftermarket adjustable seat? Just curious...not questioning the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander52 Posted May 11, 2013 Author Share Posted May 11, 2013 NASA is more qualified to answer this question but...... oem belts were tested and passed using that specific setup. If you mix and match you could end up with a Franken setup that could actually be more dangerous. In my case I have a Sparco seat that you would find in the street section. I am in the process of getting 4 pt Schroth asm belts to fulfill the requirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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