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AI #'d classes maybe?


darreng505

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personally, i would expect to see some evolution of the ai power to weight ratio in the coming years.

 

It already happened last year. 9.5:1 for FR ABS, 9.25:1 for other ABS, 9:1 for real man's brakes.

 

I hope it doesn't change again. I'm still down 15RWHP from that rule and I'm hoping to fix it before next year.

 

i expect that it will. there is a new gen mustang coming. there will be a new gen camaro and a new srt barracuda in the near future. all appear to be lighter cars that will come with base v8 trim hp that will put them well over the current specs. you can only restrict engine so much.

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i expect that it will. there is a new gen mustang coming. there will be a new gen camaro and a new srt barracuda in the near future. all appear to be lighter cars that will come with base v8 trim hp that will put them well over the current specs. you can only restrict engine so much.

 

*shrug* If they have the money to buy a brand new car and turn it into a race car, I'd assume they have the money to figure out how to restrict 30-40RWHP. If their tuner can't figure it out, get a better tuner.

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we all know that i dont know what i am talking about but ive always thought that evolving the class as the cars grow with the passing of time is the smart way to handle things.

 

i wonder....if the new mustang comes with AI power but is a turbo ecoboost 6 will that be causing problems?

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i wonder....if the new mustang comes with AI power but is a turbo ecoboost 6 will that be causing problems?

 

Why would it:

 

7.1 Performance

Any performance modification is allowed provided the car meets the class power to weight ratio rule and

complies with the class configuration specifications defined in Section 4. Alcohol or methanol injection is

NOT allowed. Use of Nitrous Oxide power adder systems is specifically outlawed. V8 (and larger) engine

AI cars must be naturally aspirated and may not use turbochargers or superchargers.

 

If they outlaw turbos on V6 cars...my plans would go to the pooper to get into AI.

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i wonder....if the new mustang comes with AI power but is a turbo ecoboost 6 will that be causing problems?

 

Why would it:

 

7.1 Performance

Any performance modification is allowed provided the car meets the class power to weight ratio rule and

complies with the class configuration specifications defined in Section 4. Alcohol or methanol injection is

NOT allowed. Use of Nitrous Oxide power adder systems is specifically outlawed. V8 (and larger) engine

AI cars must be naturally aspirated and may not use turbochargers or superchargers.

 

If they outlaw turbos on V6 cars...my plans would go to the pooper to get into AI.

 

and there it is. if nasa makes the new mustang ecoboost ai legal, the ford conspiracy thing will kick back up again. so much fun.

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  • 2 weeks later...
i expect that it will. there is a new gen mustang coming. there will be a new gen camaro and a new srt barracuda in the near future. all appear to be lighter cars that will come with base v8 trim hp that will put them well over the current specs. you can only restrict engine so much.

 

*shrug* If they have the money to buy a brand new car and turn it into a race car, I'd assume they have the money to figure out how to restrict 30-40RWHP. If their tuner can't figure it out, get a better tuner.

 

This comes back to where I'm at. If a car is at 470rwhp de-tuning it down to AI spec (376ish) is a major hit. Better to have just gotten a spec'd car off the shelf than de-tune that much. If you go AIX with 470rwhp you will have issues competing on some level, so you're stuck "in between".

 

To other points mentioned, it's ok to have unlimited, but as I said the jump from AI to AIX is TOO BIG, in my opinion (376AI -> 1000+HP AIX??). Which means there are a lot of cars in between who either don't want to de-tune and don't want to add 200hp so they just don't race (yes, I understand the rules are the same for everyone. I'm not defending people who just don't like the rules. Just saying)...I think to attract more racers, some clustering of cars in the upward direction might be needed. So far, all the new AI classes/rules have been going DOWN the cost/hp/ratio ladder, not up.

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So far, all the new AI classes/rules have been going DOWN the cost/hp/ratio ladder, not up.

 

 

Careful what you wish for....

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i expect that it will. there is a new gen mustang coming. there will be a new gen camaro and a new srt barracuda in the near future. all appear to be lighter cars that will come with base v8 trim hp that will put them well over the current specs. you can only restrict engine so much.

 

*shrug* If they have the money to buy a brand new car and turn it into a race car, I'd assume they have the money to figure out how to restrict 30-40RWHP. If their tuner can't figure it out, get a better tuner.

 

This comes back to where I'm at. If a car is at 470rwhp de-tuning it down to AI spec (376ish) is a major hit. Better to have just gotten a spec'd car off the shelf than de-tune that much. If you go AIX with 470rwhp you will have issues competing on some level, so you're stuck "in between".

 

To other points mentioned, it's ok to have unlimited, but as I said the jump from AI to AIX is TOO BIG, in my opinion (376AI -> 1000+HP AIX??). Which means there are a lot of cars in between who either don't want to de-tune and don't want to add 200hp so they just don't race (yes, I understand the rules are the same for everyone. I'm not defending people who just don't like the rules. Just saying)...I think to attract more racers, some clustering of cars in the upward direction might be needed. So far, all the new AI classes/rules have been going DOWN the cost/hp/ratio ladder, not up.

 

I think we see your point. If you want to suggest a rule change, follow the RCR procedure and suggest one. In the meantime, if you want to race in AI/AIX/whatever, read the rules and then modify your car to fit the rules. This is what we all do. Making a new Mustang (I think that's what you have) fit into AI isn't that hard. The rules are written for that car. Ask the GM guys.

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I think we see your point. If you want to suggest a rule change, follow the RCR procedure and suggest one. In the meantime, if you want to race in AI/AIX/whatever, read the rules and then modify your car to fit the rules. This is what we all do. Making a new Mustang (I think that's what you have) fit into AI isn't that hard. The rules are written for that car. Ask the GM guys.

 

Thanks. I will be going AIX and I'm ok with that for now. Not sure how competitive I will be. But that's ok to start. Will see how things evolve from there.

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Get out there and run AIX for a half a year or a year and then decide if you want to move classes. Most of our AI cars are faster than our AIX cars in Mid Atlantic but our AIX count has been low the last several years.

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most of the aix cars I know are mainly ai cars that don't want to run the toyo spec tire.

 

come to think of it, I only know of two real aix cars. Griswold and Faessler

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You need to add Elliot Fisher (the orange car 800+ hp) and Mike Stacy - Nascar type motor. John Miksula will be at Gingerman (I think 500 hp?) Bill Collins has 700 HP on a car that will be at Autobahn In July. Jake Parrot (750 ish).

 

I have raced 500 - 1000 Hp for 14 years now. I learned a lot about what does work, and even more about what doesn't work. I will say that once you hit 500 RW, dependability goes out the window without the correct parts. If we had a class that was 500 -600 hp max, the average guy will break a lot of shitt. Then they will all want 600 max, then 700. Trust me on this one. You need to change how you think about a lot of things (dog ring transmission, dry sump oiling, brakes, coolers, etc). Can you make a 500 hp car run a race, yes. A whole season is another story. It takes a lot of maintenance ($$$) even when the car doesn't break anything.

 

Frankly a lot of people get hung up on the HP in AIX. Corvettes run the same lap times with 100 less horsepower. A lot of it still comes down to the driver, setup, car cg, rigidity of the frame, aero etc. You may not believe this but I have just as much fun driving a Miata. It is just a much different kind of fun.

 

The same thing happened with tires. A lot of guys wanted to run DOT Hoosiers in AI because they are faster. Once they realized they fall off more than the slow TOYO's, and their tire budget doubled to stay competitive; the slow Toyo's didn't look so bad anymore. The Toyo's are at least a consistent slow which helps the competition, and the budget. It is not ultimate speed that makes racing fun. As long as it is competitive with lap times, the speed doesn't really matter. It is the competition, not the fastest lap time. I don't believe I just said that - I'm getting old....

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  • 2 weeks later...

Chris,

For some reason the “new” Toyos are only lasting 5-6 heat cycles before they fall off fast. The cost advantage of the Toyo now isn’t as great as it once was.

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It is disappointing that Toyota seems to have used the rubber of the 888 in the newer RA1's. Try buying some from TJ; he has a bunch from 2007.

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It is disappointing that Toyota seems to have used the rubber of the 888 in the newer RA1's. Try buying some from TJ; he has a bunch from 2007.

 

There is the problem.. Toyo sold out to Toyota..

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Chris,

For some reason the “new” Toyos are only lasting 5-6 heat cycles before they fall off fast. The cost advantage of the Toyo now isn’t as great as it once was.

How much are yours falling off?

 

I get mine shaved to 5/32's and they easily last 15-20 sessions. I rotate them during the event and flip them after each weekend. I run them on a fox that is 3115 lbs post race.

Just curious what others are seeing.

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It is disappointing that Toyota seems to have used the rubber of the 888 in the newer RA1's. Try buying some from TJ; he has a bunch from 2007.

 

Just burned up some '07s. Time to mount up (2) '04s, an '03, and an '11. Anyone have an idea where to put the soft one?

 

My local guy is starting to cringe at the date codes...

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Chris,

For some reason the “new” Toyos are only lasting 5-6 heat cycles before they fall off fast. The cost advantage of the Toyo now isn’t as great as it once was.

How much are yours falling off?

 

I get mine shaved to 5/32's and they easily last 15-20 sessions. I rotate them during the event and flip them after each weekend. I run them on a fox that is 3115 lbs post race.

Just curious what others are seeing.

 

I get about the same life out of mine, after 15 heat cycles they slow down, 20 cycles and I give 'em away if they still have tread on them. I start with them shaved to 3/32. ~3050 lbs post race.

 

I ran a 1/32 shaved set to 14 heat cycles, and they were still very fast.

 

I think the heavier cars just eat these little RA1's up.

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I get about the same life out of mine, after 15 heat cycles they slow down, 20 cycles and I give 'em away if they still have tread on them. I start with them shaved to 3/32. ~3050 lbs post race.

 

I ran a 1/32 shaved set to 14 heat cycles, and they were still very fast.

 

I think the heavier cars just eat these little RA1's up.

 

Will, are you still speaking of a 4th gen at 3050# post race (WITH DRIVER?)? If so, do you have a write up somewhere that details what you have done to get the weight down that far? Trying to get our Camaro down from 3378# and it already has VFN doors and hood, lexan and such. Granted I'm 270# belted in but that is still 3100# empty. I'd be interested to see where you got rid of weight. I'm trying to apply the same principals to the Camaro that I applied to the mustang to get it to 3000# and it just isn't working for this TANK.

 

Thanks.

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K.I.S.S.

 

If it doesn't need to be there, get rid of it. If it does need to be there, make a new bracket out of a small piece of AL. Fancy stuff is heavy, circle track junk is light.

 

2853lb post race (3rd gen, 2-3 gals fuel, and 220lb driver) with a glass windshield/hatch and the only fiberglass is the hood.

 

Go over to www.frrax.com, post pictures, and we'll tell you where to gut some weight.

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