Jump to content

DE3 - What Now?


braknl8

Recommended Posts

What are the progression options after DE3? If I'm not mistaken I can either get a check for DE4 or a TT check ride? And, if this is the case, can't TT'ers go out in any DE session? So, if you do a TT check from DE3 do you "default" to DE4 or are they separate either way you do it? I can see the need for a check ride for TT'ing from DE'ing (even if 4) but if you are checked for TT....DE-whatever seems like a gimmie? Guide me, wise ones...

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 67
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • braknl8

    11

  • drivinhardz06

    8

  • Cobra4B

    7

  • brkntrxn

    7

JohnPutnam

Chris... Only instructors can go out in any DE session. If you want to go that route, sign up for the instructor clinic in September. I would strongly recommend going into TT next though. DE teaches you how to drive, but TT teaches you how to go fast. Reach out to Jeff to get a check ride in a couple of weeks. Having ridden with you before, I know Jeff will be sure to ok you for TT. Maybe do DE on Sat and then TT on Sun.

Link to post
Share on other sites

John is correct. Your options after DE3 is:

 

- check ride for Time Trials and then start running in TT only sessions

- Instructor Clinic; once you pass that, you can instruct and DE4 or instruct and TT

- Ask to move to DE4;

- Comp School; see John's comment about TTing for a year or two before Comp'ing. You know my thoughts on it mirror his.

- and finally, MORE DE3

 

But to be honest, I have generally seen faster traffic in DE3 sessions than DE4. Not knocking on any instructors BECAUSE I AM ONE, but there are quite a few instructors that just go out and do laps during their session and are not really looking for speed. There are also the instructors who are taking their students for rides and working at a slower pace to get the student to see something they are trying to teach. Hence, DE3 traffic is generally faster (in my opinion).

 

You are now a solo driver. That is the top of the heap for the DE progression. Sell your car, retire from the track, and start saving money. You are the top dung beetle!

Link to post
Share on other sites
drivinhardz06

If you want more track time/laps, DE4.

 

If you want to compete and do 2-3 hand grenade laps at a time w/o breathing, TT

Link to post
Share on other sites

Keep in mind, Instructing is not for everyone. You've got to LOVE it. Otherwise, you won't have a good experience, and more importantly, your student won't either. Do you think you can "hold it together" & control someone's actions at speed with ONLY your voice? Do you enjoy seeing that "light bulb" go on over someone's head & know you were the one who switched it on for them? If that's the case, Instructing might be for you. But having said that, I've seen plenty of people take the Instructor Clinic, go out & instruct once or twice & then never sit in the right seat ever again. There's no shame in that. They just realized sitting in the right seat was too much of a leap of faith for them. Not everyone is comfortable putting their life in a stranger's hands.

 

You're at a fork in the road that most people arrive to who do this long enough. What do YOU want to do? Do you want to start competing or do you want to just drive & challenge yourself in DE? Most people at your level decide to compete. Once you take that route, the other choice is TT vs. W2W. TT is (marginally) less expensive than W2W. (At least over the short term. IMHO, W2W is less expensive over the long haul vs. TT.)

 

So, decide what you really want to do & go forward from there.

Link to post
Share on other sites
So there is no check ride from DE-3 to DE-4?
Yes there is. Either Laura Parkhurst or her dad, Robert Patton, will assign an Instructor who drives in DE4 (not TT) for the check ride. I say it should be an Instructor driving in DE4 bc you'll be "invited into their ranks" if you pass muster.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for all the good info, guys! If I had to bet my next paycheck on who would respond I wouldn't have lost a dime.

 

I think I still need seat time so I'll get in touch with Laura to see if she has anyone available for a DE4 check ride at RA in Aug. I don't think I'm going to be able to make the Sept event so if I did a TT check that would pretty much make my first TT event VIR, in Oct (fingers crossed and prayers a 'flyin that I'll be able to go). I've never been to VIR and don't believe my first tt event should be at a new track. Maybe DE4 at VIR and see if I can get a TT check at CMP in Nov (very familiar with CMP and RA so either would be fine for a first TT).

 

Instructing is something I've been struggling with... I do feel that I'm at a point that I could offer a DE1 or 2 student sound advice but I don't know that I'm experienced enough to recognize if something bad was about to happen...soon enough, to provide corrective information to the student, from the passenger seat. I'm very critical of myself and I'm comparing that to the instructors that I hang around and, even though I may be a little biased, they are among the best so maybe I need to realize that all instructors start somewhere. I have also thought about approaching Sonny about starting as a possible "classroom instructor fill-in" to offer he and Kim a break, at times. Go through the regular instructor clinic paces then do a few classroom teaching sessions (as a fully-recognized instructor) as I DE and TT, gaining track experience...then hit the passenger seat at the first of the season, next year. Does that sound like anything near a sensible plan?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Keep in mind, MidAtlantic DE structure is not identical to SE.

 

The inconsistencies is a personal point of aggravation to me in the franchise model of NASA divisions.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Keep in mind, MidAtlantic DE structure is not identical to SE.

 

The inconsistencies is a personal point of aggravation to me in the franchise model of NASA divisions.

 

 

Good point, Kevin. Having never driven with MA, what are some of the differences to take into consideration? I know you've ran with both, a ton. pm me if more "politically correct"...

Link to post
Share on other sites
kbrew8991

it does make sense for there to be certain differences between regions to take into account different mix / ratios of drivers, TTers, racers, and then their mix of classes/car counts, etc, etc, etc. One size doesn't fit all.

 

One other note on instructing: You can love it, want to do it, and it can STILL not be for you. There's a difference between coaching and instructing as well. I can coach, I can't instruct. That whole seeing something go wrong enough ahead of time to communicate that to the student and back them off thing just isn't something I have no matter how many ICs I took and times I tried. I can help people find speed and ways to go faster and faster more consistently.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The structure of DE2 and the requirements for an instructor is different between regions. I am not entirely sure about DE3 and DE4 as I never ran in either as a driver.

 

 

Ken,

 

I disagree. Other organizations that run events across the nation have no issue offering and conducting consistent class structure. I have been on the organizational and participation sides of those entities and there are no issues. In fact, it is easier because your participants and instructors know the consistent structure rules from day one. But, my money is not on the line with NASA, so my opinion does not matter.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I've never been to VIR and don't believe my first tt event should be at a new track.

 

Neither does the regional TT director up there but he'd certainly be available for a check ride...

Link to post
Share on other sites
kbrew8991
Ken,

 

I disagree. Other organizations that run events across the nation have no issue offering and conducting consistent class structure. I have been on the organizational and participation sides of those entities and there are no issues. In fact, it is easier because your participants and instructors know the consistent structure rules from day one. But, my money is not on the line with NASA, so my opinion does not matter.

I used the words "certain differences" for a reason

 

Y'alls schedule & mix of groups just plain won't work here in TX. We don't have a ton of DE people, but we have so many racers we have 4-5 race groups. Some of the tweaks we made to the DE structure are made with that in mind, DE1-2 is just about always combined, 3-4 combined, etc just because there's not room in the schedule for a 6-8-10 car DE group when there's a 25-30 car AI-CMC group, 30 car GTS & ST group, etc that also needs some track time for example, and we're shorthanded enough on instructors that I doubt we've got enough to do someone in the right seat of every DE1/2 driver. We're shorthanded enough at instructor that there are a pretty good handful of racers that instruct, plus a huge percentage of my TTers as well.

 

And vice versa - our structure wouldn't work for you guys in SE. No one would want to be in a 6-8 car PTD-F only race group, and you won't make it with a 50-75-100 car combined DE3-4 group or whatever. The tweaks made to the DE structure you guys have take advantage of your region's wealth of instructing talent, as you should to put out a great product.

 

Now standardizing things like "within NASA every DE2 driver gets an instructor" and things along those lines, yes, some things like that (my opinion on that particular example is "eh, still leave it up to the regions to decide but...) it very well could make great sense to standardize. There are alot of other things within NASA that are pretty darn standardized. I never personally found much issue with the structural differences between SE & MA circa 04-08, but that's also about 5 years ago by now and things do change. They've got a little different personality too, but, that's to be expected as it's different people running the show. It was all still very fun. If you want a fully standardized to the point it's hurting their growth and turning off long-time members, well, there's a car club that does races out there that's like that. I'm glad NASA regions have enough flexibility to do what makes sense for their area.

 

:beer:

Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm glad NASA regions have enough flexibility to do what makes sense for their area.

 

^ This. Minor regional differences only exist to best serve the participating membership, and make each program the best it can be. I also see this as a positive not a negative

Link to post
Share on other sites
Keep in mind, Instructing is not for everyone. You've got to LOVE it. Otherwise, you won't have a good experience, and more importantly, your student won't either. Do you think you can "hold it together" & control someone's actions at speed with ONLY your voice? Do you enjoy seeing that "light bulb" go on over someone's head & know you were the one who switched it on for them? If that's the case, Instructing might be for you. But having said that, I've seen plenty of people take the Instructor Clinic, go out & instruct once or twice & then never sit in the right seat ever again. There's no shame in that. They just realized sitting in the right seat was too much of a leap of faith for them. Not everyone is comfortable putting their life in a stranger's hands.

So, decide what you really want to do & go forward from there.

 

I agree - Instructing is a labor of love. I instruct every chance I get - even without a sutible car.

I've let Julie and Larua know if they are running short on instructurs - just let me know and I'll fill in.

I do it because I enjoy seeing the "where the heck am I and why the heck did I sign up for this" go to "weee haw - when can I do this again!"

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have found that I love instructing... I get a real thrill from helping go faster. It's gratifying when people have fun and I can be a part of that.

 

If you make it to VIR in October we'll link up. I'm going to try and have my car ready to make RA in September.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Lucid Moments
One other note on instructing: You can love it, want to do it, and it can STILL not be for you. There's a difference between coaching and instructing as well. I can coach, I can't instruct. That whole seeing something go wrong enough ahead of time to communicate that to the student and back them off thing just isn't something I have no matter how many ICs I took and times I tried.

 

Aint that the damn truth. Ask me how I know?

Link to post
Share on other sites
I have found that I love instructing... I get a real thrill from helping go faster. It's gratifying when people have fun and I can be a part of that.

 

If you make it to VIR in October we'll link up. I'm going to try and have my car ready to make RA in September.

 

 

Thanks, Brian! If I can get there I'll certainly take you up on that.

 

Hope to see you at RA...

Link to post
Share on other sites
drivinhardz06
I have found that I love instructing... I get a real thrill from helping go faster. It's gratifying when people have fun and I can be a part of that.

 

If you make it to VIR in October we'll link up. I'm going to try and have my car ready to make RA in September.

 

 

Thanks, Brian! If I can get there I'll certainly take you up on that.

 

Hope to see you at RA...

 

yeah but Brian is slow

Link to post
Share on other sites
I have found that I love instructing... I get a real thrill from helping go faster. It's gratifying when people have fun and I can be a part of that.

 

If you make it to VIR in October we'll link up. I'm going to try and have my car ready to make RA in September.

 

 

Thanks, Brian! If I can get there I'll certainly take you up on that.

 

Hope to see you at RA...

 

yeah but Brian is slow

Don't worry... I got a whole bag of type-R stickers and a v-tec badge for the car.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I have found that I love instructing... I get a real thrill from helping go faster. It's gratifying when people have fun and I can be a part of that.

 

If you make it to VIR in October we'll link up. I'm going to try and have my car ready to make RA in September.

 

 

Thanks, Brian! If I can get there I'll certainly take you up on that.

 

Hope to see you at RA...

 

yeah but Brian is slow

 

 

I just wanna see you guys back on track!

Link to post
Share on other sites
drivinhardz06

I just wanna see you guys back on track!

 

that makes two of us. I'll need a weekend in DE1 to learn to drive again

Link to post
Share on other sites

I volunteer to instruct. I can teach you all the super secret tricks to get you re-started on the right path. Being that "green" is important you should take the entire track in 6th gear to conserve fuel.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...