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wera44

Tire advice

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wera44

My instructor told me I have reached the limits of my street tires and I agree. Should I move to a full race tire or an intermediate track day tire? I'm in HPDE 2 but was told I could move up. I hope to run TT next year if that matters.

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kbrew8991

I'd do an intermediate tire, no point spending the coin on a shorter lasting competition tire in a DE setting. Also the intermediate will typically have a wider slip angle sweet spot, but narrower than street tires. Good way to progress up the "ladder", especially if eventually TT is the goal and you'll be on a full competition tire like a Hoosier or whatever.

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wera44
I'd do an intermediate tire, no point spending the coin on a shorter lasting competition tire in a DE setting. Also the intermediate will typically have a wider slip angle sweet spot, but narrower than street tires. Good way to progress up the "ladder", especially if eventually TT is the goal and you'll be on a full competition tire like a Hoosier or whatever.

 

 

Sounds like good advice. I was thinking about a 200 treadwear tire like the BF Goodrich Rival or do I need something more aggressive than that? Any sugestions?

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kbrew8991

Rival is still a street tire in my book, but it's starting to really blur the line as it's really really good for what it is. Nitto NT01 would be what I'd personally look at if you're swapping wheels/tires at the track and such. Others you'll see recommended are Toyo RA1, R888, stuff like that.

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getfast

From experience, a Rival's grip level ain't far off that of an RA1 or similar. They're awesome, and pretty much THE "intermediate level track day tire" right now in my opinion.

 

I really like that current/recent crop of uber sticky street tires - great fun to drive on, tons of grip, good in rain, and they last a long time. I'm down to my last six Dunlop Direzza Z1 Star Specs for my E36 and will move to the Z2 when those are done

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trigger

I second the advice to run cheater streets (140-200 TWR) tires for HPDE. that or run takeoff R6 scrubs. youll go through those twice as fast, but they are half the price of new tires.

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wera44
Rival is still a street tire in my book, but it's starting to really blur the line as it's really really good for what it is. Nitto NT01 would be what I'd personally look at if you're swapping wheels/tires at the track and such. Others you'll see recommended are Toyo RA1, R888, stuff like that.

 

Its my dedicated track car so I wont be swapping tires at the track. Eventually I would like another set of wheels for rain tires but thats later down the road. I look into the above tires. Thanks again!

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MikeAtl

FWIW, I was/am in a very similar situation. Been running DE2 for a few events and was just signed off to DE3 this past weekend at RA.

 

Have been running Z1 Star Specs for a while and was having great fun. ran them all day this past Saturday. Lotsa grip and much communication. I came across a set of BFG R1's (not the R1S), older date code (09), but stickers and tried them for the first time this past weekend on Sunday. Not sure if it because they are a bit older (they were stored climate controlled), but they definitely did not feel as sticky as I was expecting. There was grip, but they actually did not feel much better than the Star Specs. Maybe it was because I am new to them and it was my first time on an r comp, or maybe it was because they are a bit older, don't know. Just saying this to inform.

 

That said, I will run the StarSpecs and R1's until they are gone and learn how to drive loose, and then plan to try an NT01 or similar.

 

Mike

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wera44

Well I think im going to do a 200 treadwear tire, learn more until I can out drive them then go more aggressive. Now the question is Dunlop Direzza ZII or the BF Goodrich Rival.

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ILIKETODRIVE

Run cheater street tires (140-200 treadwear). Burn through a set of those in HPDE2 and HPDE3, then pick up another set BUT get them shaved down to 3/32nds and see the difference. For instance: Local hot shoe in a TTD E36 years ago did back-to-back days with Dunlop Star Specs at PIR. 1:11.0 on Sat (which was a new record and a really good flying lap for the track), 1:09.9 on Sun. Only difference was full tread vs shaved.

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aaronsti

so do the r comps like nt01 have anymore heat resistance than a cheater street like say hankook rs3 or bfg rival? the reason I ask is because now I can't drive more than about 3-5 laps with no traffic before they start to go. they don't loose all grip but there is a noticeable difference between the sweet spot and over heated. the pyrometer says the temps across the tire are even with in 10 degrees of eachother, inside hotter and cooling as you go to the outside should like its supposed to be. i'm in de 3/4 thanks

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kbrew8991

Yes, that's a big part of what you get with them over a street tire. Absolute one lap speed the gap is narrowing, but lap 10 you're still seeing a pretty big difference with the "begginner" race tire.

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wera44

So is a 100-140 treadwear tire considered an intermediate tire or full race? I think im a bit confused. Maybe the R1R would be a better choice for me.

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kbrew8991

Treadwear isn't a be-all-end-all number to describe how a tire will perform in any way, I'd consider reviews of the tire more strongly.

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MFE

My lap times on Firebird West were better with RS3's than NT01's, all else being totally equal. The RS3's are a truly outstanding bang for the buck.

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wera44
Treadwear isn't a be-all-end-all number to describe how a tire will perform in any way, I'd consider reviews of the tire more strongly.

 

Thanks for the advice.

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wera44
My lap times on Firebird West were better with RS3's than NT01's, all else being totally equal. The RS3's are a truly outstanding bang for the buck.

 

They dont come in the size I need.

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brkntrxn
FWIW, I was/am in a very similar situation. Been running DE2 for a few events and was just signed off to DE3 this past weekend at RA.

 

Have been running Z1 Star Specs for a while and was having great fun. ran them all day this past Saturday. Lotsa grip and much communication. I came across a set of BFG R1's (not the R1S), older date code (09), but stickers and tried them for the first time this past weekend on Sunday. Not sure if it because they are a bit older (they were stored climate controlled), but they definitely did not feel as sticky as I was expecting. There was grip, but they actually did not feel much better than the Star Specs. Maybe it was because I am new to them and it was my first time on an r comp, or maybe it was because they are a bit older, don't know. Just saying this to inform.

 

That said, I will run the StarSpecs and R1's until they are gone and learn how to drive loose, and then plan to try an NT01 or similar.

 

Mike

 

 

If that was the first time they were on the ground and they have never been heat cycled, you may have been feeling the oils release from the tire. A typical R-Comp needs to be heat cycled before the first use in order to maximize life and get the "good grip".

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brkntrxn
so do the r comps like nt01 have anymore heat resistance than a cheater street like say hankook rs3 or bfg rival? the reason I ask is because now I can't drive more than about 3-5 laps with no traffic before they start to go. they don't loose all grip but there is a noticeable difference between the sweet spot and over heated. the pyrometer says the temps across the tire are even with in 10 degrees of eachother, inside hotter and cooling as you go to the outside should like its supposed to be. i'm in de 3/4 thanks

 

 

You are describing a tire that is either heat cycled out, or is being over driven.

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MikeAtl

Kevin, yes, first time on the ground. They behaved this way for three 20 minute sessions. So, a noob question, does "one" heat cycle = one track session? Meaning, one cold-to-hot-to-cold transition?

 

Thanks,

Mike

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brkntrxn
Kevin, yes, first time on the ground. They behaved this way for three 20 minute sessions. So, a noob question, does "one" heat cycle = one track session? Meaning, one cold-to-hot-to-cold transition?

 

Thanks,

Mike

 

In general, yes, one session or one race is a heat cycle. But it depends on how much they cooled between sessions. Technically, you could put two heat cycles on a tire in a single race if you have a slow, extended double yellow or a an extended red flag. That is why you see us and the professionals weaving on the yellow laps to keep heat in the tires.

 

I am sure the link above explains it, but after you perform the initial heat cycle, you should let the tire sit for 24 hours before the next use.

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aaronsti
so do the r comps like nt01 have anymore heat resistance than a cheater street like say hankook rs3 or bfg rival? the reason I ask is because now I can't drive more than about 3-5 laps with no traffic before they start to go. they don't loose all grip but there is a noticeable difference between the sweet spot and over heated. the pyrometer says the temps across the tire are even with in 10 degrees of eachother, inside hotter and cooling as you go to the outside should like its supposed to be. i'm in de 3/4 thanks

 

 

You are describing a tire that is either heat cycled out, or is being over driven.

 

 

what aspect of the paragraph makes you say that?

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MFE

Since I agree with his assessment 100%, I'll say that it's the part about them only lasting 3-5 laps. Aside from rain, the only two things that make tires lose grip that fast are being cycled out or overdriven.

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MikeAtl
MikeAtl wrote:

Kevin, yes, first time on the ground. They behaved this way for three 20 minute sessions. So, a noob question, does "one" heat cycle = one track session? Meaning, one cold-to-hot-to-cold transition?

 

Thanks,

Mike

 

 

In general, yes, one session or one race is a heat cycle. But it depends on how much they cooled between sessions. Technically, you could put two heat cycles on a tire in a single race if you have a slow, extended double yellow or a an extended red flag. That is why you see us and the professionals weaving on the yellow laps to keep heat in the tires.

 

I am sure the link above explains it, but after you perform the initial heat cycle, you should let the tire sit for 24 hours before the next use.

 

Darn, I hope I did not ruin them...

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