Setting up 2006 mustang GT for TTC?

[wm577]

Hi guys, I’m looking for any advice on what would work as a good set up. The car starts in TTD, so I have 39 point to spend. The base weight is 3450lbs. Here is what I was thinking:

 

Free (no points)

* 93 octane performance tune on OEM ECU.

* brake ducts

* race brake pads, Hawk DTC-70 (front), Hawk DTC-60 (rear)

* 3.73 rear end gears

* 18x10 wheels all 4

* front chamber plates

* light weight drive shaft

 

Points (option A):

+14 this car is give a ** +14 point hit in TTD base class

+7 for tires size, 275/35-18

+2 for performance street tire 120+ treadwear

+1 for change LSD to a performance torsen type (ford OEM’s tend to not last for track use)

+3 shocks

+2 springs

+4 Aftermarket control arms (rear LCAs, rear UCA, front LCAs), poly rod-end combo

+2 adjustable panhard bar

+4 rear wing.

---------------------

+39 total

 

Points (option B):

+14 this car is give a ** +14 point hit in TTD base class

+4 for tires size, 265/35-18

+7 DOT-approved R-compound tires, treadwear rating of 50 to 130

+1 for change LSD to a performance torsen type (ford OEM’s tend to not last for track use)

+3 shocks

+2 springs

+4 Aftermarket control arms (rear LCAs, rear UCA, front LCAs), poly rod-end combo

+2 adjustable panhard bar

+2 weight reduction (-20lbs), 3430lbs, or big brake kit if OEM does not hold up.

___________

+39 total

 

In option A is rear wing really worth the +4, or should I spend it on something else (ie more tire width, or less car wt.)? The problem with option B is I’m not sure a 265mm tire will hold up well on a 3400+lbs car. With that said anyone have any guesses as to what setup would be faster? ….or even a 3rd option if you have one.

 

Thanks in advance for all bench racing advice you might have

[ILIKETODRIVE]

B all the way. Also could do a +10 255 tire

[kbrew8991]

go down more on size and/or skip one or two of the other mods and get into at least the +10 compound range - my $0.02

[SNAKBITN]

Kill the wing and shave some weight or bigger tires.It's cheaper that way and faster.There's no need in a wing unless you got the proper aero in the front.You might get away with the stock panhard bar.

[wm577]

go down more on size and/or skip one or two of the other mods and get into at least the +10 compound range - my $0.02

 

what mod would you drop? Do I really need an adjustable panhard bar, provided I only drop the car by 1 inch? that would free up 2 points. Also I was saving 2 point just in case I needed a better front brake system (Brembo F500 brake kit). If the OEM GT brakes hold up (no craking rotors, no cooked pads, etc...) then what would free up another 2 points. I am afraid that a 255 wide tire will have me buying tires every other weekend if not every weekend on a car this heavy, so I'm not sure going down in size is what I really want to do. How much tire do you think I need at a minimum?

 

so something like this, if OEM brakes are ok, and oem panhard bar is fine?

 

+14 this car is give a ** +14 point hit in TTD base class

+4 for tires size, 265/35-18

+10 DOT-approved R-compound tires, treadwear rating of less than 40

+1 for change LSD to a performance torsen type (ford OEM’s tend to not last for track use)

+3 shocks

+2 springs

+4 Aftermarket control arms (rear LCAs, rear UCA, front LCAs), poly rod-end combo

____________

+38

[ILIKETODRIVE]

I am afraid that a 255 wide tire will have me buying tires every other weekend if not every weekend on a car this heavy, so I'm not sure going down in size is what I really want to do. How much tire do you think I need at a minimum

Forgot about this:

http://images5a.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp635%3A%3A%3Enu%3D856%3A%3E2%3A9%3E25%3A%3EWSNRCG%3D347%3B%3B5%3B44234%3Bnu0mrj

And:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=50797

 

So 255/35R18 Hoosier would be a no-go lol.

 

You could do OPTION B and ditch the weight reduction/brakes and run these in a 265/35R18: http://ventustd.com/sizes.php (psst they're +9)

[kbrew8991]

I'd listen to guys running those cars in the points class if their experience differs, but on the surface it seems like you'd still run out of competitive heat cycles from a Hoosier A or R before you wore the tire to the cords.

[brkntrxn]

First rule to Time Trials -- Build the car around the widest Hoosier A6 possible for the class you want to run. The 13 points are worth every penny.

 

Second rule to Time Trials - Maximize EVERY free rule available to you. I don't see a clutch, bushings, or other freebies on your list.

 

Third rule to Time Trials - Read 1 and 2 again.

[ILIKETODRIVE]

First rule to Time Trials -- Build the car around the widest Hoosier A6 possible for the class you want to run. The 13 points are worth every penny.

 

Second rule to Time Trials - Maximize EVERY free rule available to you. I don't see a clutch, bushings, or other freebies on your list.

Option A minus the last three mods.

[TurboShortBus]

Note that tire compound is worth way more than tire width. Spending +3 just to get another 10mm won't do a damn thing for you, but spending that same +3 to bump up from a Nitto NT01 to a Hoosier R6 or from an R6 to an A6 will make a huge difference in lap times. Your car starts in TTD, so that's a 245mm base width. The first 10mm are cheap, so go ahead and spend that +1 if it's burning a hole in your pocket and run 255s.

 

Leave the stock control arms and panhard in there. Just change the freebie bushings if you must.

 

If you truly want to be competitive every weekend (depending on the level of competition in your region), then you will be buying tires often.

 

Just a suggestion: Wait until the 2014 rules come out in December before spending any serious money.

 

Mark

[brkntrxn]

Something else I will add: Time Trials is all about one and done. The podium guys typically run one maybe two flyer laps and then get off track. Your stock brake calipers will do better than you think because you won't be using them long enough to fade them.

[getfast]

First rule to Time Trials

 

Actually the first rule according to Greg is to refer to the program by its correct legal name, NASA TT or NASA Time Trial (with no "s" on the end)

[Greg G.]

First rule to Time Trials

 

Actually the first rule according to Greg is to refer to the program by its correct legal name, NASA TT or NASA Time Trial (with no "s" on the end)

 

Yep, there is only one series--NASA Time Trial

Although sometimes on these forums it seems like we have one trial after another

[brkntrxn]

First rule to Time Trials

 

Actually the first rule according to Greg is to refer to the program by its correct legal name, NASA TT or NASA Time Trial (with no "s" on the end)

 

Yep, there is only one series--NASA Time Trial

Although sometimes on these forums it seems like we have one trial after another

 

 

Witch-hunt mentality vs Mob-Mentality????

 

 

This thread is dying an ugly death when the officials start making jokes....

 

 

 

Back to the OP: The tried and true formula for a class winning TT car is to build it around the stickiest compound first, widest tire second, and then use whatever points you have left over that will help you put down ONE flyer lap. Whatever will help you corner faster, slow down in a shorter distance, or accelerate out of a corner quicker. Besides sticky tires, only one other thing does all three --- less weight, the rest will only do one or two at most. Don't think longevity, don't think overheat, don't think brake fade, don't think comfort, etc. Basically, don't think like a DE'er or a racer. And I am being serious.

[Varkwso]

 

Witch-hunt mentality vs Mob-Mentality????

 

 

This thread is dying an ugly death when the officials start making jokes....

 

 

 

Back to the OP: The tried and true formula for a class winning TT car is to build it around the stickiest compound first, widest tire second, and then use whatever points you have left over that will help you put down ONE flyer lap. Whatever will help you corner faster, slow down in a shorter distance, or accelerate out of a corner quicker. Besides sticky tires, only one other thing does all three --- less weight, the rest will only do one or two at most. Don't think longevity, don't think overheat, don't think brake fade, don't think comfort, etc. Basically, don't think like a DE'er or a racer. And I am being serious.

 

 

I thought TT stood for Trials and Tribulations?

 

The last paragraph above is gospel. Tire, free mods, weight. You don't need trick cooling or brakes to win as a TTer (just because I can)...

[WynnS123]

You don't need trick cooling or brakes to win as a TTer (just because I can)...

 

More cooling and bigger brakes will actually slow you down in TT.

[soundguydave]

Just a +1 for what has been said..

 

Above all else, do the free mods. Camber plates for sure, bushings everywhere you can, 1pc aluminum or CF driveshaft, DTC70 front, DTC60 rear pads, etc.

 

Tire compound first: When I was active in TT with a 2006 Mustang GT, I ran Hoosier R6 over the A6, simply because I could get a couple shots at a clean lap if I needed them. With the 3450lb weight of the car, you put a LOT of load on the tires, and the A6 got greasy VERY fast. Yes, it was a tick faster overall than the R6 with a clean run, but if you hit traffic and had to reset for another shot, you were already past the prime. These cars are HEAVY, and you need enough tire under them to handle the weight and load.

 

Tire width second: Get as wide as you can and still fit in class. Wheel width is open, so yes, 10" wheels will serve you well, but go no narrower than a 9.5"

 

ECU tune third: It's one point for a CAI plus reflash, and on this specific car, it's money well spent. You can pull an extra 15HP from this mod, but the main gain is the throttle mapping. Work with your tuner, and think as linear as possible when looking at commanded versus actual throttle angle. Driven properly, the S197 spends a LOT of time in the corners under part-throttle conditions, constantly manipulating the throttle for traction and line. The LAST thing you want is a hyper-aggressive throttle map which snaps the throttle to full open when you just caress the pedal.

 

If you have points left over, the +5 you take from dampers and springs are also well spent. If you're going to be serious about competing, you'll want the BEST monotube dampers you can get in the +3 range. Think Sachs, AST, Moton, et al, not Koni. Work the spring rates to keep roll and brake dive (and thus rear instability under braking) to a minimum, but go no stiffer than you need to keep off the bump stops.

 

If you STILL have points left over, go back and add more tire width. 275 starts to be about right on that chassis.

 

If you STILL have points left over, then spend them on weight reduction, but do it with a firm eye on front/rear weight bias. Don't worry about pulling off the back end, focus on the nose of the car, and in particular the driver's front corner.

 

Aftermarket arms, swaybars, extended-stud balljoints, etc., are all great, but they cost WAYYYYY too many points for what they deliver. Consider them icing on the cake, or only MAYBE if you move up into TTB. If you have a solid "C" car and do want to move up, then go for tire width then weight reduction.

 

My formula for you would be:

 

39 points to spend.

 

14 for the **

17 for 275 width Hoosier R6

1 point for CAI and tune

3 points for good dampers

2 points for springs

2 points for weight reduction

[circuitmstr]

E85

[Varkwso]

E85

 

 

For the FRS that is a killer retune - have not seen big gains for the Mod Motor or LS family with it.

[circuitmstr]

any gain is excellent when its a free points mod.

[Varkwso]

any gain is excellent when its a free points mod.

 

 

true that

[mcolangelo2005]

I hope no one minds me bringing this thread back from the dead.

 

I recently picked up a 2006 Mustang GT with the goals of turning it into a street-legal track car (with AC and stereo ) as well as a NASA time trial car. My car came with the Ford Racing Handling Package as well as a Steeda adjustable panhard bar and a Steeda adjustable 3rd link. This 3rd link replaced the non-adjustable OEM 3rd link.

 

My question concerns the Steeda adjustable 3rd link. I can't find on the NASA Time Trial Classification Form where an adjustable aftermarket 3rd link gets points. Section E.21 says "Add a third link to a rear suspension that does not penetrate the floor (May have spherical joints without an additional points assessment) +4"

 

For my car, the 3rd link was replaced, not added. I'm confused if points should get assessed for this aftermarket part. Can anyone help?

[TurboShortBus]

I hope no one minds me bringing this thread back from the dead.

This is always better than starting yet another thread about a topic that is already out there. At least the people who already posted in this thread will be notified, instead of waiting for the knowledge base to stumble across a new thread.

 

This covers it:

E9) Replace, modify, or remove control arms (other than plates, shims, or eccentric bolts/bushings for simple camber/caster adjustment only) or RWD/AWD rear trailing arms (may have spherical/metallic joint for the connection to the spindle/knuckle) +4

Don't forget to take points for all of the non-BTM parts in that Ford Racing Handling Pack (looks like E3, E5, and E7) as well as E18 for the Steeda panhard bar.

 

Note that, TT-wise, few (if any) of these particular parts are worth the points that they cost, as you have already racked up +13 points in a car that starts in TTD** (don't forget +14 for the **), and you haven't chosen tires yet. Long-term, you would be better off going with more serious parts for the points or putting the BTM parts back on the car and spending points elsewhere. But, short-term, you can run these parts to get a feel for the car and add faster parts later. Additionally, do every one of the no-points modifications that applies to your car.

 

Which TT class are you building for? You need to first pick a class and then modify the car accordingly, and not first modify the car and then see where it ends up.

 

Mark

[mcolangelo2005]

I hope no one minds me bringing this thread back from the dead.

This is always better than starting yet another thread about a topic that is already out there. At least the people who already posted in this thread will be notified, instead of waiting for the knowledge base to stumble across a new thread.

 

This covers it:

E9) Replace, modify, or remove control arms (other than plates, shims, or eccentric bolts/bushings for simple camber/caster adjustment only) or RWD/AWD rear trailing arms (may have spherical/metallic joint for the connection to the spindle/knuckle) +4

Don't forget to take points for all of the non-BTM parts in that Ford Racing Handling Pack (looks like E3, E5, and E7) as well as E18 for the Steeda panhard bar.

 

Note that, TT-wise, few (if any) of these particular parts are worth the points that they cost, as you have already racked up +13 points in a car that starts in TTD** (don't forget +14 for the **), and you haven't chosen tires yet. Long-term, you would be better off going with more serious parts for the points or putting the BTM parts back on the car and spending points elsewhere. But, short-term, you can run these parts to get a feel for the car and add faster parts later. Additionally, do every one of the no-points modifications that applies to your car.

 

Which TT class are you building for? You need to first pick a class and then modify the car accordingly, and not first modify the car and then see where it ends up.

 

Mark

 

Hi Mark,

 

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I'm already at 13 points for the Ford Racing and Steeda suspension parts, including replacing control arms. It makes sense that the 3rd link is viewed as a control arm so I won't take a double hit there. I plan on keeping these parts on the car, at least initially.

 

The car will also get the 14" Brembo front brake kit (+2) and a CAI (+1). With the default +14 points (TTD**), this leaves me with 9 points for tires. My plan right now is to run BFG Rivals in the 275mm width for a total of 9 points for tires. This brings me to 39 points total which will just barely allow me to stay in TTC. All other mods are freebies (rear half-cage, race seats, 6 pt harnesses, camber plates, ECU tune, brake cooling ducts, etc).

 

Thanks,

 

Mike C.

[Varkwso]

TTC needs some more active drivers!