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Why isn't the FRS killing TTD?


Varkwso
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Do you have those with the NASA-recognized "SAE" correction not "Standard"?

Standard correction sheets are referred to by our local dyno guy as "internet horsepowarz" because the numbers are always higher

 

Haven't found SAE numbers yet. The shop near me isn't willing to work with me the whole day to play with variations to produce useful numbers. I don't plan on going after max power with my setup (I'm already at min weight and the plan is to get the car down to 2400lb dry after this year, so I've got lightweight parts as opposed to max power). I'm just sourcing the highest claimed "horsepowarz" available - "max potential power" for discussion.

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The last one is the only one that appears to have "0" for smoothing factor...which would explain the difference of 172.29 and 138.14 vs 171.89 and 137.74 (difference of a whooping .4whp and .4wtq; Both are labeled RunFile_14.drf)

 

Unfortunately the "header" alone is +5 vs +2 so doing an intake+tune vs intake+header+e85+tune doesn't really help since you could replace the rest of the exhaust for exactly zero more points.

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Standard correction sheets are referred to by our local dyno guy as "internet horsepowarz" because the numbers are always less consistent and repeatable

fixed for truthiness

 

Ken, Phast had it right. STD correction doesn't change the underlying run, it just is a different multipler. It corrects/normalizes the HP to 60 degrees, instead of 77 degrees, and slightly more baraometric density. This means STD will always be higher than SAE, but no less consistant. Internet sources say the absolute difference is close to 4% (STD higher), so interpret the posted results with that in mind.

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Internet sources say the absolute difference is close to 4% (STD higher), so interpret the posted results with that in mind.

 

Interesting, I knew it was higher but it wasn't as much as 4% difference the few times I've looked at both for reference, maybe more like 2%. First example I could find, stock mk6 GTI https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/463126_10151614487815602_428834305_o.jpg

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The last one is the only one that appears to have "0" for smoothing factor...which would explain the difference of 172.29 and 138.14 vs 171.89 and 137.74 (difference of a whooping .4whp and .4wtq; Both are labeled RunFile_14.drf)

 

Unfortunately the "header" alone is +5 vs +2 so doing an intake+tune vs intake+header+e85+tune doesn't really help since you could replace the rest of the exhaust for exactly zero more points.

Look at the 2nd-to-last dyno chart and the last dyno chart. Look at the last run on both. Look at the smoothing factor on both.

oh-hai-polar-bear-funny-picture-meme-300x202.jpg

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I know i'm just waiting to find some .drf files and more dyno sheets this weekend. Everyone else seems to have gotten tired of the car already?

I posted mine a while back, but I'll post it again as another example of a stock powertrain (other than drop in K&N drop in filter):

 

Yzow4pC.png

 

This is on 93 octane from Costco on a nice cool day with low humidity. This is SAE corrected, which is supposed to be the official way from what I've been told. With STD correction, that would put me at 189 whp if the 4.33% difference between the two methods I read about is correct.

 

Not planning on doing any power mods this year (since I think the final verdict was that a header for this car would cost 5 points), but a light weight clutch/flywheel and CF driveshaft should help get the power to the wheels more efficiently.

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Those are very good numbers for just a drop in filter. If you're already 180hp on 93, a tune and E-85 should put you at nearly max allowed power without any pts. Wow! I wish mine responded that well. Wanna trade cars?

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Those are very good numbers for just a drop in filter. If you're already 180hp on 93, a tune and E-85 should put you at nearly max allowed power without any pts. Wow! I wish mine responded that well. Wanna trade cars?

 

You may want to reconsider since its already been wrecked once. I tried to go all Tokyo Drift style and drift up a wet off ramp at around 50-60mph. Almost had it but over corrected at the end and spun into the guard rail. That was the last time I've done any thing that reckless on the street.

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Those are very good numbers for just a drop in filter. If you're already 180hp on 93, a tune and E-85 should put you at nearly max allowed power without any pts. Wow! I wish mine responded that well. Wanna trade cars?

 

You may want to reconsider since its already been wrecked once. I tried to go all Tokyo Drift style and drift up a wet off ramp at around 50-60mph. Almost had it but over corrected at the end and spun into the guard rail. That was the last time I've done any thing that reckless on the street.

Ouch!!! Hopefully, that'll be an eternal reminder every time you have the urge to do something like that on public roads.

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Here's another E85 dyno. 200whp with the only mods being an oil change, oil filter change, and E85 tune. They got 201 whp in 5th gear, 197 whp in 4th.

 

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55591

Later, Bill wrote this:

"Well one really cool mod on top of this E85 tune is an Airaid Cold Air Intake. We added it without removing the snorkel and picked up about 5 horsepower without changing the tune.

 

We then removed the cover as a test, similar to having no snorkel and picked up another 4 horsepower. So that should equate to about 210 whp without even touching the tune. Definitely like the fact I did not have to change anything with the Airaid Intake install. Just bolt on and go."

 

Note that the Dyno was STD corrected, not SAE.

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Greg, All,

 

This one was done Friday January 10th, 2014 on a DynoJet in Phoenix (1300' MSL). I tried to make sure all variables were consistent and in accordance with NASA TT Dyno procedures. Note the huge acceleration zapping dip in the torque curve!!

 

NDU2MDhGNDFCNDkxODYwQTk3NDQ6YjQxYjkwNzZiNTdjYTlhODAyZmVhZmVlMTI0ZTc5NjM=?nc=791

 

The car has a safe E85 Tune (13.0 AFR or less) and the only points modifications are a drop in K&N filter, Front Pipe W/Cat delete, and Muffler delete. Otherwise it is completely stock. I can send the traqmate data that was collected on January 11th and 12th at WHPE if you would like them for comparison. BTW... new track record but only by 100th's of a second!!! Right now it looks like the SC Miata's and fully prepped M3's have an equal competitor and should be looking for some pretty healthy competition. I know we have had some very positive discussions after WHPE this weekend that suggest the twins are welcome and refreshing competition in TTD. Hope it stays that way at least through Nationals.

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Greg, All,

 

This one was done Friday January 10th, 2014 on a DynoJet in Phoenix (1300' MSL). I tried to make sure all variables were consistent and in accordance with NASA TT Dyno procedures. Note the huge acceleration zapping dip in the torque curve!!

 

NDU2MDhGNDFCNDkxODYwQTk3NDQ6YjQxYjkwNzZiNTdjYTlhODAyZmVhZmVlMTI0ZTc5NjM=?nc=791

 

The car has a safe E85 Tune (13.0 AFR or less) and the only points modifications are a drop in K&N filter, Front Pipe W/Cat delete, and Muffler delete. Otherwise it is completely stock. I can send the traqmate data that was collected on January 11th and 12th at WHPE if you would like them for comparison. BTW... new track record but only by 100th's of a second!!! Right now it looks like the SC Miata's and fully prepped M3's have an equal competitor and should be looking for some pretty healthy competition. I know we have had some very positive discussions after WHPE this weekend that suggest the twins are welcome and refreshing competition in TTD. Hope it stays that way at least through Nationals.

 

Could you upload something a little larger than a post stamp?

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Greg, All,

 

This one was done Friday January 10th, 2014 on a DynoJet in Phoenix (1300' MSL). I tried to make sure all variables were consistent and in accordance with NASA TT Dyno procedures. Note the huge acceleration zapping dip in the torque curve!!

 

NDU2MDhGNDFCNDkxODYwQTk3NDQ6YjQxYjkwNzZiNTdjYTlhODAyZmVhZmVlMTI0ZTc5NjM=?nc=791

 

Could you upload something a little larger than a post stamp?

 

Can't see the image either; however, congrats on a very good start to the year.

 

Is it because there are not many running in NASA?

ANSWER = YES!

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Can't see the image either; however, congrats on a very good start to the year.

 

Sorry, Trying to figure out how to make the image bigger. Until then:

 

2013 Scion FR-S_Front Pipe (Cat) Delete_Muffler Delete_ K&N Filter_ E-85 Tune_MAX RWHP 192.73_MAX Torque157.34

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Greg, All,

 

This one was done Friday January 10th, 2014 on a DynoJet in Phoenix (1300' MSL). I tried to make sure all variables were consistent and in accordance with NASA TT Dyno procedures. Note the huge acceleration zapping dip in the torque curve!!

 

NDU2MDhGNDFCNDkxODYwQTk3NDQ6YjQxYjkwNzZiNTdjYTlhODAyZmVhZmVlMTI0ZTc5NjM=?nc=791

 

The car has a safe E85 Tune (13.0 AFR or less) and the only points modifications are a drop in K&N filter, Front Pipe W/Cat delete, and Muffler delete. Otherwise it is completely stock. I can send the traqmate data that was collected on January 11th and 12th at WHPE if you would like them for comparison. BTW... new track record but only by 100th's of a second!!! Right now it looks like the SC Miata's and fully prepped M3's have an equal competitor and should be looking for some pretty healthy competition. I know we have had some very positive discussions after WHPE this weekend that suggest the twins are welcome and refreshing competition in TTD. Hope it stays that way at least through Nationals.

 

Again:

From a practical and "common sense" perspective, if we look at two of our best TTD/PTD contenders (Miatas and E36 M3's), a Dyno Re-class would put them in a PTD/TTD Base Re-class, at 190 rwhp, at about 75 lbs more than the FRS Base Weight. At 200 rwhp, it would be about 200 lbs.

 

So, if an FRS or BRZ are able to start with 190 rwhp without any points mods, they are already at a 75 lb advantage to both the E36 M3 and the Miatas. If they can make 200 rwhp with no points (or +1 point for an intake as Bill states), then they are 200 lbs lighter at the same power level, AND, they have 2013 suspension, body, chassis technology compared to 1995-2005. We have our own data with our top drivers that show that this car needs some classing adjustment.

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