ja1217 Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Why isn't the FRS killing TTD? Maybe because it is really a "C" car. While the car has done pretty well out West in TTD, it is at a pretty big disadvantage on the larger tracks like RA. The BOP adjustment hurt more than I realized and was very premature in my opinion since no actual dominating results had ever been posted anywhere. Oh well, the extra 110 Lb is likely here to stay forever! So a third place finish at NASA East Nationals and a regional championship here in AZ will be the swan song for my FRS as far as TTD goes. The only advantage the twins have to close the gap on most competitors with average HP/TQ ratios is in the corners. The car is awesome on A6's and that was the equalizer on the tracks I have run on most of the time. NOW the A6 is gone. Replaced by the A7. A car prepped to the limit of TTD is automatically bumped to TTC if you want to use the only effective weapon available since the new tire carries a bonus point value of 22!, 9 points more than the A6. Now you are in the lower end of TTC with no practical way to make competitive HP in the higher class. Add a supercharger and Dyno Reclass you say? Here is what I got: Max HP~221 - MIN Weight ~ 2905 - New Base Class - TTC. Seems a little unfair that I was slapped with a restriction of 13.14/1 WT/HP ratio when most of the other Dyno reclasses that I have seen are in the 12.75/1 range (TTC Minimim is 12.0/1). I think there is a little fear still that the twins will start to dominate and win everything in sight. This is only about 10 more HP than I can make with MAX N/A mods and is 20 lbs heavier. I can do much better without the reclass I think. So for me, I am caging the car right after Sonoma and will run TTC/PTC next year. I plan to use A7's and just do the best I can to maximize the car's potential with the remaining points. Could have used aero mods, but the +22 point hit nixed that idea. I am hoping some of you guys that are on the fence about modding and classing your FRS/BRZ will do the same. Eric, once you drill the first hole it gets much easier!! EB, I will be at VIR and look forward to some FRS on FRS action!! I really think that the reason the twins aren't dominating is that there just aren't enough of us running. Let's do something about that!! While I agree that the extra weight was probably premature and unnecessary as the only track records I know of are on relatively quirky tracks like Roebling Road, I still think that the car can be very competitive in TTD. This past weekend I was at VIR and ended up coming in second to Jon Kozlow in his E36 M3 (the true TTD killing car in my opinion). For most of the weekend I was running low 2:15's and a bit sloppy, so I should have been in low to the mid 2:14's, which was still about 3 seconds off his pace in the 2:11's with both of us on 225 R6's. However, on Sunday we had a morning session where conditions were completely ideal with cool clean air and I dropped down to a 2:12. Now, of course Jon's car was able to take advantage of these conditions as well and he dropped down to a 2:09 (a new track record). However, my takeaway from this experience is that with a bit of extra horsepower, like what I had in the morning, should put me right around his usual 2:11 pace. Currently my car has no power mods, other than a drop in filter and a 93 octane tune, making only ~185whp. My plan is to get a header and exhaust and updated 93 tune over the winter (not interested in the hassle of hauling E85 fuel to the track) and hopefully gain about 15whp, which is possible with a good header and tune. Now I'm hoping that this will put me on the pace of the fast E36's, like Kozlow's and Cantor's. That said, I may end up having to sacrifice some grip thanks to some silly things like +8 coilovers/springs and +2 BBK that I already have on the car and end up running something like the Maxxis RC-1. Based on my dyno results I might try to send in for a dyno reclass to see if I can essentially do the exhaust for free, but based on your experience with the reclass I don't hold out a lot of hope for that being the case. Here's video of my fastest lap for the weekend: Also, it would be great to see more twins out there. I am planning on being at East Nationals next year at VIR in TTD and look forward to having competition from more than just the usual E36 M3's and Miatas. Couldn't make it this year to Road Atlanta and wanted more experience anyways, as this was my first year in TT and only the second year driving a car on the track Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmanuel B. Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Interesting info there Hal, thanks for sharing the results of that reclass. Awesome job at VIR Josh. Theoretically, the car can be competitive in D. Since the A7 points hit applies to everyone, it's safe to assume that the other competitors will opt for R7s to stay in D. At 209whp and 2885lbs with <=245mm DOT tire, the maximum power to weight is achievable N/A with 5pts and E85 (even if it isn't widely available). This leaves room for a 225mm R7 and suspension, and that's the only tire the M3s can run now since there's no room for 225 A7s. The new tire ruling may hurt trying to break previous track records, but I doubt it puts anyone at a disadvantage. Sadly, I have realized that I'm not in a position to build a class killer, nor have I the time to really develop my qualifying or time trial skill. My focus from day 1 was testing for the unknown consumables and serving as a guinea pig for a future SPEC series. My approach shall remain right about the same for the next year... CAGE and GO. Since the minimal amount required to go w2w racing doesn't make the car competitive in TTD, I'll just enjoy it for what it is in PTD and occasionally fill out numbers for the TT guys. I'll keep working to growing the car counts and serving as a resource for others interested in the twins with the hopes of a future spec series. Just as an aside, my car with an air filter + exhaust makes 187whp on an E85 tune, and 173whp on a 93 tune. I may have just got a dud, but these cars respond very differently. According to my tuner, who has tuned a few other 200whp N/A cars with just E85, I may be able to get close to 200 with JDL/Nameless headers on E85 but 209 will be a stretch. So I shall race this engine stock until it grenades, and then review my options. ... And Josh, ditch the BBK for RBF660s + DT70s and some ducting. It is absolutely not needed on this car, especially in TT. Keep your +8 ohlins, +5 bolt ons, +6 R7. Attend every VIR event next year. You should have a decent shot at winning Nationals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 I agree on the M3 being a well developed chassis for TTD. Maybe we will get the BRZ out to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enivid Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Anyone have a rough estimate on the whp range to get into TTB with stock weight? Minimum/Maximum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmanuel B. Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Anyone have a rough estimate on the whp range to get into TTB with stock weight? Minimum/Maximum? With an FR-S? Weight to Power Ration greater than 10.50 for TTB. So at 2750lbs (including driver), max whp = 250. But there are other modifiers that affect that final number to take into account. Use the Class calculator to play with some numbers: http://www.nasaproracing.com/racing/series/NASA_PT_Class_Calculator_2014_v1.xlsx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sstfnv Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Can you run a completely stock FR-S with 225 street tires in TTE? I was using the excel class calculator and it shows that I'm -2 points total and TTE as calculated class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmanuel B. Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Can you run a completely stock FR-S with 225 street tires in TTE? I was using the excel class calculator and it shows that I'm -2 points total and TTE as calculated class. Yes, as long as you're not exceeding weight:power limit for TTE, you can.... but that shouldn't be an issue for a stock FR-S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhdinyuma Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 You could run any 225 size DOT tire with a treadwear rating between 120 and 200 (TOYO R1R, BFG Rival, Hankook RS3, etrc.) and still have room for a drop in filter and 15 lb weight reduction. Use as many of the zero point mods as possible. With even a mild tune (0 Points) you could make 175ish adjusted RWHP at 2860 lbs and be a force in TTE. If I had a second FRS that is definitely what I would do if I was in a region where TTE was popular.... All IMHO, of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted January 19, 2015 Author Share Posted January 19, 2015 You could run any 225 size DOT tire with a treadwear rating between 120 and 200 (TOYO R1R, BFG Rival, Hankook RS3, etrc.) and still have room for a drop in filter and 15 lb weight reduction. Use as many of the zero point mods as possible. With even a mild tune (0 Points) you could make 175ish adjusted RWHP at 2860 lbs and be a force in TTE. If I had a second FRS that is definitely what I would do if I was in a region where TTE was popular.... All IMHO, of course! On long courses like Daytona, RA and VIR should work well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 You could run any 225 size DOT tire with a treadwear rating between 120 and 200 (TOYO R1R, BFG Rival, Hankook RS3, etrc.) and still have room for a drop in filter and 15 lb weight reduction. Use as many of the zero point mods as possible. With even a mild tune (0 Points) you could make 175ish adjusted RWHP at 2860 lbs and be a force in TTE. If I had a second FRS that is definitely what I would do if I was in a region where TTE was popular.... All IMHO, of course! Do think about it! Lol. I was (gotta submit for a newer reclass) 138whp/2350lbs and whooped any heavy E cars (>2800lbs) at East and West. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sstfnv Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Thanks guys! I think I will just add an oil cooler from a forester XT and run otherwise stock to keep the car reliable and lower costs. Even if I'm not competitive in TTE it should still be fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhdinyuma Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Do think about it! Lol. I was (gotta submit for a newer reclass) 138whp/2350lbs and whooped any heavy E cars (>2800lbs) at East and West. I wish Hertz rented them, I would definitely give it a go!! 2350/138=17.0/1 un-adjusted...2860/175=16.4/1 un-adjusted...I'm OK with that matchup... I love it when a 36 page thread comes back to life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhdinyuma Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 This was PTC, but "killing" it is an appropriate description!! White FRS (on pole) was the winning car in the NASA AZ TTD regional championship in 2014. Switched to TTC/PTC for 2015. Qualified on pole for first two races in 2015. Finished 2nd (to the red RFS) on Saturday and DQ'd on Sunday due to a bonehead move by the driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmanuel B. Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 This was PTC, but "killing" it is an appropriate description!! White FRS (on pole) was the winning car in the NASA AZ TTD regional championship in 2014. Switched to TTC/PTC for 2015. Qualified on pole for first two races in 2015. Finished 2nd (to the red RFS) on Saturday and DQ'd on Sunday due to a bonehead move by the driver. Glad PTC is working out great for you. Looks like I'll have 3 regular FRSs in TTD for this year. The collective development should help, and at least one of us will eventually figure out how to drive the damn thing to "kill" TTD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 2350/138=17.0/1 un-adjusted...2860/175=16.4/1 un-adjusted...I'm OK with that matchup... 1/4 mile times that I could find for FR-S: 14.8-15.0 @ 94ish Me - 14.1 @ 94 at 1000ft @ Firebird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aCab Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I may buy and run an FR-S again when they get a little cheaper. I loved mine when I had it and was pretty damn fast in it. Great car, just a financial burden I couldn't take at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhdinyuma Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Hey EB...3 regular FRS's is awesome. I had hoped to see a few of our aspiring FRS owners from last year out at our first event but they were not there. The red FRS was actually a car from Toyota. They had an HPDE car there as well. I moved up to TTC mainly because of the tire point change (I am using A7's) and also for more competition. We had 10 starters in TTC at WHPE last weekend. Car did great on the new Maxxis RC1 in PTC, even did reasonably well in the rain on Saturday. Looking forward to seeing great results from the boys back east!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhdinyuma Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I may buy and run an FR-S again when they get a little cheaper. Love to see you back out in an FRS. They are getting cheaper and good low mileage cars are starting to show up well below 20K. Shouldn't be too long before they are affordable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysinboost Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 hopefully we're going to see more FRS/BRZ signed up in TTD for Nationals this year. RIght now for Hyperfest @ VIR there is only one registered... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enivid Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Does the factory cosmetic spoiler and diffuser count as points? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysinboost Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 if it was an option, which I believe it was, then yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhdinyuma Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Does the factory cosmetic spoiler and diffuser count as points? These are items that were not part of the "base trim model" of the FRS/BRZ so therefore they would incur points per the rules. However, they are really only cosmetic so probably not worth the points..../IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Does the factory cosmetic spoiler and diffuser count as points? yes - and it's probably not worth it I'd start watching these for the Release Series 1.0 suspension upgrades as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted April 28, 2015 Author Share Posted April 28, 2015 Does the factory cosmetic spoiler and diffuser count as points? yes - and it's probably not worth it I'd start watching these for the Release Series 1.0 suspension upgrades as well... Definitely not worth the points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostedfrs Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I have a built frs that will be competing this year. It will be in TT2 to start as i am still shaking the car down. It will then be a TT1 car. The car should hopefully be pretty competitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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