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Varkwso

Why isn't the FRS killing TTD?

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kbrew8991
Rather than hitting these cars with a *, I have suggested to Greg that E85 takes points. Tons of other cars out there cannot run E85 without taking points for fuel pump, fuel lines, fuel injectors, etc. per TT classification forms item C6. IMO, a car with a "free" reflash that can run E85 has an advantage over others that cannot.

 

Mark

counter-arguement

 

Since only a couple cars here & there make big gains with E85, rather than having to police fuel for everyone in addition to everything else, let's class cars that we know gain big (without the extra fuel pump / lines / injector points) with those free mods in mind.

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Varkwso
FRS/BRZ versus common competitors

 

E36 M3 - one asterix higher AND 400lbs

RX8 - same base class but 270lbs extra

 

What other common TTD cars are there?

 

And the chassis comes set up right - adj end links on sways from the factory, etc....

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Varkwso
Rather than hitting these cars with a *, I have suggested to Greg that E85 takes points. Tons of other cars out there cannot run E85 without taking points for fuel pump, fuel lines, fuel injectors, etc. per TT classification forms item C6. IMO, a car with a "free" reflash that can run E85 has an advantage over others that cannot.

 

Mark

counter-arguement

 

Since only a couple cars here & there make big gains with E85, rather than having to police fuel for everyone in addition to everything else, let's class cars that we know gain big (without the extra fuel pump / lines / injector points) with those free mods in mind.

 

Or leave them alone since free mods all have different benefit for different cars....

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kbrew8991

Give up on classing cars correctly from the start - cool - that works too. TT1 - 6 for all

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Varkwso
Give up on classing cars correctly from the start - cool - that works too. TT1 - 6 for all

 

 

With an old school TT3 car I can tell you where that goes....

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kbrew8991

it'd make the director job a little easier

as a competitor and someone fielding a car it'd suck donkey balls

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TurboShortBus
Rather than hitting these cars with a *, I have suggested to Greg that E85 takes points. Tons of other cars out there cannot run E85 without taking points for fuel pump, fuel lines, fuel injectors, etc. per TT classification forms item C6. IMO, a car with a "free" reflash that can run E85 has an advantage over others that cannot.

 

Mark

counter-arguement

 

Since only a couple cars here & there make big gains with E85, rather than having to police fuel for everyone in addition to everything else, let's class cars that we know gain big (without the extra fuel pump / lines / injector points) with those free mods in mind.

Either/or; no preference here. One affects the car classing, one affects the modification points. It's easier to say "E85 is X points for everybody" (and make it something like +5 points to cover the car with the biggest gains) than it is to determine which cars make what power on E85 and then get the subsequent changes into the TT rules in a reasonable amount of time (or just let them run over everybody for an entire season and annually update the classings on December 31).

 

As for detecting E85, it might not take more than a whiff of an open gas cap. I have no intention of proposing to test the specific gravity of fuel samples.

 

Mark

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Vettedoctor

Couldn't cars that can't use E85 still use a 100+ octane racing fuel and get the same kind of bump that some cars get out of the E85?

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ILIKETODRIVE
Base tire for D is 245mm, stock tire on BRZ/FR-S is a 215mm. So, 215-245= -30mm which equals -7 points. So, that leaves 6 points to play with and still be in E.

 

The adjusted horsepower to weight still has to meet the 16.5 to 1 for E. So, at 2775lbs it has to be less than 171 whp to be legal for E.

Another -3 for doing a 205 and BLAMO! The +9 compound 205 Toyo RR. That sounds like a fun weekend car. Not super-duper competitive but fun.

 

A factor may be direct injection - something the Honduhs don't have

Hmm, didn't know/realize that. I stand corrected.

 

*switches from distributor and PGM-FI to coil-on-plug and direct-injection on his dinosaur B18B*

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Varkwso
Couldn't cars that can't use E85 still use a 100+ octane racing fuel and get the same kind of bump that some cars get out of the E85?

 

Yes they can but it is a rare car that gets super gains from fuel alone. Our beloved LS motors get a gain at 100+ but not worth it in the detuned wars we find ourselves mostly in these cars now...

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ja1217

Hello all, newbie here.

 

I'm looking to compete next year in TTD with my FR-S and this seemed as good a place as any to ask a few setup questions. First off, here's a list of current mods that take points

 

AP Racing Sprint BBK: +2

Ohlins Road & Track Coilovers: +5 (I think, I'm unsure about the 40mm rule, here's some info about them: http://www.roadandtrackbyohlins.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/MI_SUSMI20.pdf)

 

Over the winter I was planning on doing full exhaust (incl. headers) and getting a tune and probably getting a set of 225 Hoosier R6's which should leave me at 18 points if I understand the rules correctly. That said I'm a little worried about getting bumped out of TTD by putting down too much power. I just had my car dyno'd yesterday and put down 181whp on 93 octane with the only power mod being a drop in K&N filter. For reference, most stock cars were only putting down about 160 on the same dyno back in October. The current leading theory is that I've beat on my car much harder than most and the ECU has learned to lean its self out, although I think it has more to do with either the steady diet of Costco gas or the partially peeled off dealer sticker.

 

So, does anyone have any suggestions or can clarify the ruling on the coilovers? My goal is to be competitive (i.e. winning some events) in the Mid Atlantic region. For reference, I did a 2:22.43 around VIR Full on 235 Star Spec Z2's on a lap with some traffic and I still didn't quite have the balls to take the Esses flat out -

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fox4life
Rather than hitting these cars with a *, I have suggested to Greg that E85 takes points. Tons of other cars out there cannot run E85 without taking points for fuel pump, fuel lines, fuel injectors, etc. per TT classification forms item C6. IMO, a car with a "free" reflash that can run E85 has an advantage over others that cannot.

 

Mark

counter-arguement

 

Since only a couple cars here & there make big gains with E85, rather than having to police fuel for everyone in addition to everything else, let's class cars that we know gain big (without the extra fuel pump / lines / injector points) with those free mods in mind.

Either/or; no preference here. One affects the car classing, one affects the modification points. It's easier to say "E85 is X points for everybody" (and make it something like +5 points to cover the car with the biggest gains) than it is to determine which cars make what power on E85 and then get the subsequent changes into the TT rules in a reasonable amount of time (or just let them run over everybody for an entire season and annually update the classings on December 31).

 

As for detecting E85, it might not take more than a whiff of an open gas cap. I have no intention of proposing to test the specific gravity of fuel samples.

 

Mark

 

Disclamer: I run e85 in my car so this may come off as being bias, BUT....

 

Saying that e85 might not take anything more than a sniff test is a little bit off. There are TONS of different fuel combinations that have ethanol in them in different percentages all the way from 5-95%. Unless someone claims to have a hound dog trained to smell the difference you'd run into a whole list of problems verifying claims.

 

Also, to add any number of points for someone running e85 seems like you would be double penalizing cars that have to take points for fuel system parts in order to use that fuel in the first place.

 

To me, it seems like the frs/brz might just not be classed exactly right if it does in fact gain a huge amount of power from e85 alone. If the potential is there in the car to run e85 and have big gains but someone decides not to take advantage of it, then thats thier decision. I don't see how you can penalize every other car because of it.

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drivecontroll

At Gingerman this year, I couldnt catch one by a long shot (2+sec). E85 tune, shocks/springs, and used up 225/A6s I believe were his mods, leaving some on the table. He had many more laps there than I however(25 days at track vs. 0), and is a very skilled driver. They are out there, just in small numbers still.

 

I'd lean towards adding a * if it were up to me, but that may be piling on, due to the eventuality of the Subaru engine exploding! Sry couldn't help myself J. Fox.

 

One day when these cars drop to 10k, I will buy one.

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scoobyej20
Hello all, newbie here.

 

I'm looking to compete next year in TTD with my FR-S and this seemed as good a place as any to ask a few setup questions. First off, here's a list of current mods that take points

 

AP Racing Sprint BBK: +2

Ohlins Road & Track Coilovers: +5 (I think, I'm unsure about the 40mm rule, here's some info about them: http://www.roadandtrackbyohlins.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/MI_SUSMI20.pdf)

 

Over the winter I was planning on doing full exhaust (incl. headers) and getting a tune and probably getting a set of 225 Hoosier R6's which should leave me at 18 points if I understand the rules correctly. That said I'm a little worried about getting bumped out of TTD by putting down too much power. I just had my car dyno'd yesterday and put down 181whp on 93 octane with the only power mod being a drop in K&N filter. For reference, most stock cars were only putting down about 160 on the same dyno back in October. The current leading theory is that I've beat on my car much harder than most and the ECU has learned to lean its self out, although I think it has more to do with either the steady diet of Costco gas or the partially peeled off dealer sticker.

 

So, does anyone have any suggestions or can clarify the ruling on the coilovers? My goal is to be competitive (i.e. winning some events) in the Mid Atlantic region. For reference, I did a 2:22.43 around VIR Full on 235 Star Spec Z2's on a lap with some traffic and I still didn't quite have the balls to take the Esses flat out -

 

Welcome to TTD. I also run VIR and look forward to seeing you there. It does look like you need to watch your power output and to do so you'll need to understand your adjusted WP (for one considering a 225 tire). Why add points with power additions such as exhaust when you can tune it on e85? Use those points elsewhere.

 

You need to measure the strut "shaft/cylinder" in figure 1 (labeled 'strut'). It looks like it is close if not greater than 40mm.

 

2:14s will win at VIR.

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clydesdale

Maybe these cars will be so popular we can use TT as a feeder for a spec series. Don't change a thing!

 

The funny thing to me is that all of you have had the record setting Mazda Protege under your noses for several years and never said a thing-- maybe that's the beauty of a ringer car that no one really wants to own. The FRS is just the first that actually might be popular.

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fox4life

 

I'd lean towards adding a * if it were up to me, but that may be piling on, due to the eventuality of the Subaru engine exploding! Sry couldn't help myself J. Fox.

 

Its ok, I agree completely!

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Varkwso
Maybe these cars will be so popular we can use TT as a feeder for a spec series. Don't change a thing!

 

The funny thing to me is that all of you have had the record setting Mazda Protege under your noses for several years and never said a thing-- maybe that's the beauty of a ringer car that no one really wants to own. The FRS is just the first that actually might be popular.

 

Protege is pretty well developed, and is ugly with wrong axle drive, to my tastes.

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Varkwso

 

I'd lean towards adding a * if it were up to me, but that may be piling on, due to the eventuality of the Subaru engine exploding! Sry couldn't help myself J. Fox.

 

Its ok, I agree completely!

 

Doesn't need a * just because. I sure don't want one added after I buy one...

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sperkins
Know the tirer rule well, did not know you could change a cars base class with it....

You're not changing the base class, you're spending -1pt or more and dropping back. Just like if you spend +20 or more you go up one instead.

So there's actually still a way for a (base) C5 to compete in TTB at 10.25:1 with 245 or 255mm street tires.

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ja1217
Hello all, newbie here.

 

I'm looking to compete next year in TTD with my FR-S and this seemed as good a place as any to ask a few setup questions. First off, here's a list of current mods that take points

 

AP Racing Sprint BBK: +2

Ohlins Road & Track Coilovers: +5 (I think, I'm unsure about the 40mm rule, here's some info about them: http://www.roadandtrackbyohlins.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/MI_SUSMI20.pdf)

 

Over the winter I was planning on doing full exhaust (incl. headers) and getting a tune and probably getting a set of 225 Hoosier R6's which should leave me at 18 points if I understand the rules correctly. That said I'm a little worried about getting bumped out of TTD by putting down too much power. I just had my car dyno'd yesterday and put down 181whp on 93 octane with the only power mod being a drop in K&N filter. For reference, most stock cars were only putting down about 160 on the same dyno back in October. The current leading theory is that I've beat on my car much harder than most and the ECU has learned to lean its self out, although I think it has more to do with either the steady diet of Costco gas or the partially peeled off dealer sticker.

 

So, does anyone have any suggestions or can clarify the ruling on the coilovers? My goal is to be competitive (i.e. winning some events) in the Mid Atlantic region. For reference, I did a 2:22.43 around VIR Full on 235 Star Spec Z2's on a lap with some traffic and I still didn't quite have the balls to take the Esses flat out -

 

Welcome to TTD. I also run VIR and look forward to seeing you there. It does look like you need to watch your power output and to do so you'll need to understand your adjusted WP (for one considering a 225 tire). Why add points with power additions such as exhaust when you can tune it on e85? Use those points elsewhere.

 

You need to measure the strut "shaft/cylinder" in figure 1 (labeled 'strut'). It looks like it is close if not greater than 40mm.

 

2:14s will win at VIR.

 

I'm still planning on daily driving my FR-S outside of winter for a few years yet so I wanted to stay away from E85 for practicality and possible reliability issues. Also, if the claims of +30-35 whp from just e85 and a tune are true, that would also probably put me out TTD from a power/weight standpoint. Speaking of power/weight, am I understanding correctly that with the adjusted power/weight rules I would essentially be aiming for 13.45:1 instead of 14.25:1 by running 225 R6's?

 

As for the suspension, I will have to measure that when I'm doing some winter/storage prep. If they end up being 9 points instead of 5 that would change my planned mods significantly. Brakes, suspension and R6's would put me at 17 points. I would probably look into some free mods like lightened clutch/flywheel, driveshaft, and possibly final drive ratio. Maybe use the extra 2 points on a diffuser as the car supposedly generates about 90lbs of lift in the back in stock form at 100mph.

 

The FR-S/BRZ probably won't be as competitive at VIR as compared to other tracks like Summit Main as it seems the heavier, more powerful cars like the E36 M3 really benefit from the long straights. I merely used it as an example because I was just at VIR this Mon-Tues. I'm pretty sure the car had a 2:20 in it on the street tires. That said, I really doubt that Hoosiers would be worth 6 seconds at VIR.

 

Thanks for the tips!

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braknl8

So there's actually still a way for a (base) C5 to compete in TTB at 10.25:1 with 245 or 255mm street tires.

 

Not if it has a 27 on it...completely illegal, go straight to TT2 and think about what you just said for a while.

 

Very interested in this question...

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bukit

Doesn't need a * just because. I sure don't want one added after I buy one...

 

 

When are you buying one? I'm looking at a Subaru BRZ Premium right now.

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Varkwso

Looked at a Subie BRZ yesterday - base model at $26,000. Not as bad as I expected.

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Varkwso

Doesn't need a * just because. I sure don't want one added after I buy one...

 

 

When are you buying one? I'm looking at a Subaru BRZ Premium right now.

 

 

Georgia must have just gotten a shipment!

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bukit

2013 Satin White at Subaru of Gwinnett. I may jump soon.

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