Jump to content
Varkwso

Why isn't the FRS killing TTD?

Recommended Posts

scoobyej20
I finally got around to measuring the struts today (Ohlins Road & Track) and the fronts are about 50mm and the backs even more, making my suspension +9 with springs. Including my brakes I'm at 11 points, so I think I'll probably be going with 225 Hoosier R6 for tires..

 

I don't think the fronts are in jeopardy of the 40mm, only the rears are. Since the rears are inverted it is the shaft cylinder that moves into the strut housing that must be measured. Best to confirm with the rule makers, as it is 4 points on the line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kbrew8991

Why are the fronts excluded? (hint: they arent) Rule makes no mention of which end "counts". It's just like tires, widest is what gets assessed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
scoobyej20

I didn't say they were excluded. They are not in jeopardy of being greater than 40mm because they are about 15mm. Since they are not inverted is the much smaller dia shaft piston that is measured.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ja1217

Just to be clear, which section am I measuring?

 

Front:

r3bRZ4n.png

 

Rear:

cLrzenu.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sterling Doc

brz1_ohlins.jpg

 

Based on this picture, the front strut shaft looks huge, and likely >40mm.

 

Is the 40mm rule to separate out monotube dampers?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
clydesdale

You measure the strut itself. Inverted struts are almost always over 40mm. Don't forget the +1 for inverted strut which brings the total to +10 points. A non-inverted setup (if one is available) would only be +5 and probably give the same performance if it is built correctly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hhdinyuma

Referring back to the OP's original question, It is only a matter of time!

 

NASA AZ held a one day event at Arizona Motorsports Park (AMP) yesterday. There were 4 FT86's that made laps, 2 DE 1&2, 1 DE 4, and one in TTD. The cars all did very well. Car counts are increasing at every event I attend. All the DE cars did very well with various levels of modification.

 

The track record for TTD was set by a well prepped Miata in March of 2011 and was a 1:53:066. I went 1:52:741 for a new track record in the last session of the day. The first track record for an FT86 in Arizona Region! We had 8 cars entered in TTD even for a lightly attended event. I am looking forward to close battles with the front runner's throughout next year as notice has been served that this car is a challenger.

 

Car setup for AMP was identical to what I posted earlier. The only change since Miller was to tweak the tune to ensure I wasn't giving away any HP and to flatten the torque curve a little bit. I also now have only one tune/map loaded at a time and no longer have the option to switch tunes at engine start. Much simpler and works very well. IMHO the car is solid with the 245X17 A6's and Koni Sports. I still have the stock springs and ride height. CAT & Muffler delete are the only other points mods.

 

Emmanual - I have about 450 track miles with E85 now and I have not had any problems. I share your concerns over the long term but felt it was worth the risk as this car is pretty much a dedicated track car and I am serious about winning with it this year. According to all the info I have seen online, the car's systems are set up for the differences in the fuel. I could not squeeze out enough points to use an aftermarket header so E85 was the only way I could see to make legal horsepower numbers and still stay in TTD. My tuner had no trouble getting near the limit with an aggressive tune installed. Since tuning is free, I definitely think the A6's are the fastest way to go and stay within 19 points.

 

Cheers........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fair

We have been working on this chassis for about a year, as one of my employees bought one when they fist came out.

 

11_DSF6526%20copy-M.jpg

 

We made camber plates for these early on and worked with MCS on shocks. We've installed MCS TT1, TT2 and RR2 models (internal singles, doubles, and remote doubles), lots of wheels (17x9 is a good fit), a many tire sizes (245 and 255 mm in 17", mostly).

 

_DSC8166-S.jpg _DSC8168-S.jpg

 

These cars respond very well to damper and spring rate upgrades, swaybars are a good idea, and camber is a must. The bump from a wheel/tire upgrade was substantial (they come with absolute shite Prius tires).

 

_DSF6864-M.jpg

 

We have a Vorshlag Build Thread on these cars located on a lot of forums, including this: http://www.vorshlag.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8145

 

_DSC0154-M.jpg

 

Our blue test BRZ is still a TTD car currently, with stock power (167 whp, yuck) but MCS TT1s, camber plates, Whiteline bars, and a couple of bushings. I drove it there earlier this year (before the MCS coilovers) on 255 RS3 Hankooks and it was a grip buggy, running some 2:09s in traffic. The brakes are EXCELLENT (Carbotech XP12F/XP8R + our brake lines) and I saw zero fade over an entire session, which is saying something for this track. I'm going to takes some more laps in it at ECR in a couple of weeks on 17x9" wheels and 255 BFG Rivals. TTD track record here is a 2:05 (E36 M3), so we'll see how it does.

 

_DSC4968%20copy-M.jpg

 

I don't see how you'd get to 200 whp with "just a tune", but hey, I can be wildly optimistic, too. I'm still updating that build thread as we progress, do more testing, etc. If I can get the owner to do more track events we might be able to get him into TT...

 

Cheers,

Edited by Guest

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kbrew8991

considering the types of tracks we have in TX, and where Nationals is, I'd look at making changes to be good at TWS for RAtl, and MSRC3.1 maybe for Sonoma possibly. ECR's hairpins then 1/4th mile straight then hairpin then... may produce a points combination that works awesome there but may not be super optimal for other tracks.

 

1:57s or so for TWS would be a good mark to aim for

Under 2:30 on MSRC 3.1 would be a good mark to beat as well

 

 

Looking forward to seeing how that car does for y'all Terry!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Varkwso

All I can say is I am leaning towards a blue one...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hhdinyuma

Terry, The car was tuned by Bill Knose of Delicious Tuning in SOCAL. He will be glad to sell the exact tune he put together for my car. I would love to see if others have similar gains with a good tune and E85. Hope you weren't suggesting that I was less than honest cause I just want to share my experience in order to help others who might want to take a similar path and save some time & money at the dyno.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sterling Doc

A pretty reputable tuner gets to 200 WHP with E85 (and a header), but stock exhaust:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50707

 

Terry, I've been following the Vorshlag thread - it's interesting, for sure.

Interested in the MCS setup, and the RCE Tarmac 2's. I'll be in for some coilovers by spring - doing my research now.

Keep the updates coming.

 

Hal - nice job this weekend. It's really heartening to see the car can be competitive with just Koni's/wheel+tire upgrade/and a tune.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bukit
All I can say is I am leaning towards a blue one...

 

I went with Satin White Pearl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
braknl8

I'm just going to sneak in here and go ahead and coin "Spec86"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TurboShortBus
I'm just going to sneak in here and go ahead and coin "Spec86"

Methinks you're a week late:

SPEC86 would Rock!!

Let's not stop until there is a spec class for every make and model. That should water down the fields nicely...

 

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
braknl8
I'm just going to sneak in here and go ahead and coin "Spec86"

Methinks you're a week late:

SPEC86 would Rock!!

Let's not stop until there is a spec class for every make and model. That should water down the fields nicely...

 

Mark

 

dadgummitt. me posting before coffee again. ya got me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Emmanuel B.

Emmanual - I have about 450 track miles with E85 now and I have not had any problems. I share your concerns over the long term but felt it was worth the risk as this car is pretty much a dedicated track car and I am serious about winning with it this year. According to all the info I have seen online, the car's systems are set up for the differences in the fuel. I could not squeeze out enough points to use an aftermarket header so E85 was the only way I could see to make legal horsepower numbers and still stay in TTD. My tuner had no trouble getting near the limit with an aggressive tune installed. Since tuning is free, I definitely think the A6's are the fastest way to go and stay within 19 points.

 

That's good to know. The tune is a must. Besides a 25lb weight drop with a 3.9lb shorai battery at $349, it's the next best $/gain upgrade after wheels and tires. I'll be making the switch to E85 pretty soon, since it's readily available around my residence right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hhdinyuma

Thanks Eric. Hope you get the car dialed in and consider bringing it to RA in August along with the 944. I am hoping the $$ and Schedule work out so I can be there!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fair
Terry, The car was tuned by Bill Knose of Delicious Tuning in SOCAL. He will be glad to sell the exact tune he put together for my car. I would love to see if others have similar gains with a good tune and E85. Hope you weren't suggesting that I was less than honest cause I just want to share my experience in order to help others who might want to take a similar path and save some time & money at the dyno.

Hal, not saying anyone is not being honest here, and if your dyno reads 200 whp that's great. Its just .... that's a 20% gain from E85 + a tune? On a naturally aspirated motor?? (200whp - 167 whp (what we saw stock) = 33 whp/167whp) I dunno, I'm just a smidge less optimistic.

 

_DSF6876-M.jpg

 

We're getting more and more FT86 customers and I am trying to get one of them to let us try to make a better full length header, then go for a proper dyno tune. I'd love for these cars to make 200 whp... this chassis needs that!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kbrew8991

Direct injection seems to be a different beast. Plus the stock tune is kinda crappy..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BlkGt3
Direct injection seems to be a different beast. Plus the stock tune is kinda crappy..

And who would figure a CAI + tune would get you 12 to 13rwhp on a 06 Civic Si. Some carz just respond to some mods better than others.

 

Peter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ILIKETODRIVE
Direct injection seems to be a different beast. Plus the stock tune is kinda crappy..

And who would figure a CAI + tune would get you 12 to 13rwhp on a 06 Civic Si. Some carz just respond to some mods better than others.

 

Peter

REAR wheel horsepower? Now you're pulling my chain!

 

I've seen more than that in the mid-range with just intake and tune on 06+ Si...like 25+ whp mid-range gains. K-Series tunes from the factory were TERRIBLE for mid-range power. Stupid cruising fuel economy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BlkGt3
Direct injection seems to be a different beast. Plus the stock tune is kinda crappy..

And who would figure a CAI + tune would get you 12 to 13rwhp on a 06 Civic Si. Some carz just respond to some mods better than others.

 

Peter

REAR wheel horsepower? Now you're pulling my chain!

 

I've seen more than that in the mid-range with just intake and tune on 06+ Si...like 25+ whp mid-range gains. K-Series tunes from the factory were TERRIBLE for mid-range power. Stupid cruising fuel economy.

 

Yeah the stock tune sucks big time ( yes tuned stock was good for around 180rwhp with a much better midrange and lower vtec. Hybrid CAI got us to 193rwhp which I had to detune to keep from blowing the hp/wt for TTE. All were done on dynojet SAE corrected.

 

Peter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hhdinyuma

Terry, No worries. I will be looking forward to your results especially if you concentrate on tuning vs bolt on's on your FR-S builds. Surely Dyno reading's can vary widely and there just isn't enough real data to get a statistically accurate feel for what can be done through the magic of software with this ECU. Only thing I can say with any real certainty is that the fun factor increases significantly with a good tune and real powerful gas!!! Love following the progress with all your cars especially since I am really a Mustang Guy...Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
retlaw
Direct injection seems to be a different beast. Plus the stock tune is kinda crappy..

And who would figure a CAI + tune would get you 12 to 13rwhp on a 06 Civic Si. Some carz just respond to some mods better than others.

 

Peter

also … who would think that a CAI,and a header would take an Integra LS ( '01) from 105 whp to 131 … no tune involved

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...