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someone needs to breath some life into the forum....2015 5.0


Red Tornado

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We need another 2015 boss 302s discussion to get folks worked up.

I signed up for ST2 for barber as only 1 in AI and none in AIX. What's going on with folks?

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Spec IRON baby that is what is going on........... You need to change your user name. red tornado is gone . long gone and it's not even red anymore anyhow

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I know 3 AI cars changed to Spec Iron this year.Go ahead and start building you one.

 

I want one!!! Someone buy my car so I can build a SI car...

 

SI may be the end of AI. Unless things change, I'm planning on running mostly ST2 this year until I can sell the Camaro.

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Yea nationals was a great indication that AI is to be replaced by SI.

 

Keep in Mind rules for spec iron where not even posted till Feb of 13. the cars that where built or where in the process of being built where 90% eastern U.S. . Nobody was going to spend the money for that haul out and back for Miller. I talked with plenty and the reason nobody was at nationals was because of the distance and cost to go that distance and back. The couple guys out west with the cars didn't want to go because guys from eastern U.S. where not making the trip and they didn't have enough to make a class

 

This will for sure change at Nationals Atlanta This year

 

spec iron cars are only a couple seconds back of front running ai cars and in some races faster then a good portion of the ai field. with that and a 1/4 of the price to build a front running ai car you can bet spec iron will be the class with more cars then AI real soon.

 

prices for 05/10 cars are going down daily as now days you can find 85k-100k cars for under 10k.

 

will it replace AI ? Never. will it be a class with more AI cars at a race weekend in the future. I'm thinking so.

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I agree SI has great potential and should be a very cost effective class, I don't think it has to come with the demise of another class. It for sure is too early for too many predictions. I think it very possible to see large fields in both classes, even more so if they keep them in different run group at least at nats.

 

Like all classes, the car counts will vary from region to region at least for a while.

 

Good stuff lets go racing, can't wait for the season to get started for us in the middle of the country.

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We need another 2015 boss 302s discussion to get folks worked up.

 

Did someone say they needed some controversy....and strong opinions ?

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You guys are bored too.

 

AI vs Spec AI thoughts;

I think the Spec AI class is the perfect class for all of us AI guys. The problem is that we have all invested so much in the cars we have that its financially difficult to get out. The operating cost of each class is basically the same, and the initial build of both are similar. I think what makes Spec AI look so good to an AI guy is that there are no 90K Boss Mustangs in Spec AI. All of us just want to have a chance to win and only in a spec class can you count on not getting out spent.

 

It stinks that the AI crowd has fragmented, Chris runs ST or AIX, Dave runs CMC, Steve rents Spec AI. So many of the other guys have moved to other classes too. AI seems to lack that special something that has keep the A Sedan class alive over in SCCA. I don't get it, cant put my finger on it. Is it that we have too many choices in NASA? Every additional class fragments the pool of available racers. As new people come into NASA they blend in to all of the various classes that none of them really seem to grow. NASA has a great business model for getting the most cars to a track but the racing is hit or miss.

 

Just thinking out loud

Robin

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All of us just want to have a chance to win and only in a spec class can you count on not getting out spent.

 

That has yet to be seen. We'll see where the red herring comes up once the class is a little more mature (Fresh diff every weekend, new tires each race, etc.)

 

Is it that we have too many choices in NASA? Every additional class fragments the pool of available racers. As new people come into NASA they blend in to all of the various classes that none of them really seem to grow. NASA has a great business model for getting the most cars to a track but the racing is hit or miss.

 

I think this is true. I also think that the S197/Boss cars ran off some of the guys running older chassis. It's such a good car, it's hard to justify the expense of keeping up with it and/or the rules creep. I've been struggling with it for a few years. Spend enough to raise the bar or build a upper level CMC car? It's about the same money. I keep collecting parts for both as deals pop up and we'll see which one wins in the end.

 

I love driving the AI car, but the events with 2-3 cars really hurt the fun level.

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Such good comments.

 

Yeah I am stuck w an expensive car that I will run where I can run it all out. So hello SCCA Trans Am series or WC or ST2. My choice a while ago and I enjoyed the years so no regrets. Although I loved my old car. With aero and the new boss motor. Ahhh well we will never know

If I could sell for a good price next year I will go SI. My probably 125k boss can at best be sold for 55k. Now if I can get an SI car for 30k and have two seasons of race money. Then yes!

And that's likely where I will end out. I enjoy fair equal racing. Which AI has worked out of. Not unfair but just what it was designed to be at some point.

If I was starting from scratch in AI give me a 93 firebird for best aero with ls1 motor and killer non abs brakes and no weight. Honestly like Will has done. And go for it.

I am on the tail end of my racing career so no illusions here. Just want fun safe racing but going cheaper not more costly

I say that but wait till 2015 boss 302s comes out???lol

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TJ and Robin,

 

You both make good points. I think there is some validity with there being too many options where our cars fit. (CMC, AI, SI, ST...) And some people being intimidated by the $100K+ AI cars. But a lot of what makes AI are the people that are in it. Mark and I are having a great time in the Central region. There have been a few races with only the 2 of us in AI, but we have a blast. We generally are running within a few 10ths of each other. Most races this past season had at least 4 AI cars. Next season, we should have 5 or 6 regular AI cars at each event. This is in a region that is only 2 years old.

We have both committed to growing AI though. There are no CMC or SI cars in the region (although there are quite a few CMC cars at crossover events with Rocky Mt and Texas regions) Much of the growth is coming from AS cars that like the atmosphere at the races, the rules that allow real wheels (and therefore brakes), aero and a reasonable tire package. AI is the closest fit for the AS refugees. We help the guys interpret the rules and develop their cars into AI competitive cars.

 

No one is worried about the $100k Boss cars. The attitude is everyone wants competitive "regional" cars. Leave the high dollar Boss cars to the guys running nationals. I liken it to the guys trying to run AIX and compete with Chris.

 

SI looks like it may be a fun budget class with newer looking cars. It sounds like a normal guy's (not Steve) build will still run $30-40k. We are putting about that in to our 75 (Robin's old car), but we are getting an SLA front end, huge brakes and Coyote power. That just sounds like a lot more fun than a mostly stock, 10 year old S197.

 

j

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No one is worried about the $100k Boss cars. The attitude is everyone wants competitive "regional" cars

 

That is because nobody in you region is running one. That attitude will change for the budget guys if one shows up and starts kicking the crap out of everything.

 

Si : Rules are pretty simple. a few changes could be made in my opinion to make it even more spec to keep big budgets from taking over but at this point.......... They are not going further then 2010 in technology so we don't have to worry about a better race abs or launch control or high dollar evolving cars "see below" showing up. A drivers class per say.

 

Building it yourself ? Cars can be built for 22-26k being thrifty. maybe even a little less if your not wanting to put everything on the car and just simply get out on track and get seat time. Dean Martin has a 2010 car ready to race for 31k and So do I . that is ready to race for 30k. Both cars have just about every legal part on the cars. Try doing that in AI .

 

This is the best part of SI. Cost to stay in the game. Motors are $1500 on ebay all over the place. need a trans ? $500 and I can find you 10. it's all easy to find and very reasonable. Try that in AI . loose a boss motor. 10k just a coyote motor $6k. loose a trans . well you get the picture.

 

Think SI Cars are slow? Better think again. Have a mid pack ai car now ? chances are you going to have a mirror full of a spec iron car in your race just looking for a way around you.

 

Ai: The evolving rules book. Keeping up with technology. Think your boss s197 chassis mustang is the Ticket that you just spent 90k plus on ? wait till the s550 comes out? "2015 mustang" . The next better Mouse trap. It's going to happen it has for years withte way the rules are .Wait till launch control can't be turned off and becomes legal or the 2015 chassis itself just Possibly becomes the ticket. Maybe not Ford, maybe Gm. Maybe gm figures it out and brings something to the table for gm loyal. It's never going to stop and you will probably always be behind the eight ball if you don't have a budget that most of us don't Have.

 

Robin, sell your stuff from your car . motor, trans, shocks..........by the time you do that you will have enough money to build your car back in si trim plus probably enough to race a full season. I know where there is a 20k mile motor trans computer and all for 3k. drop it in and the drivetrain is done. I Have already converted one AI car to spec iron. and have taken more then a couple cars about doing the same thing.

 

I know you want to run up front again.

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These are all good points, I think it really starts to show that different people race for different reasons. One guys wants stable rules for years, cap the technology so that the class is predictable and Spec for a number of years. This is what cmc has offered to many, now SI is offering that for newer cars as a starting point.

 

Others want to build tweak, change cars, adapt older cars with new car like features. This is where AI and AIX have served the market. I think both are viable markets and both still need to be served by our products from NASA. Yea car counts will vary year to year and each class finds a niche and from time to time enought people will move away from a class that it is no longer needed.

 

Let's be careful to not tell our customers what they want, but better listen to them. If we outlawd AI tomorrow I don't think for a second that everyone would move to SI, it is just not the product for everyone.

 

I think our efforts should stay focused on growing car counts across all the classes when possible and sometimes we may have to encourage new classes to preserve some of the older ones like with SI and cmc.

 

Let go build some cars and race them, come on warm weather.

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I think AI would have been doing much better now, if SI was established back in 06. The new car and the AI rule changes fractionalized a lot of good, dedicated AI racers. AI could come back in several years, but it also could go the same way CMC1 and CMC2 went. Meaning phase out the older, less flashy class over time and usher in the new class.

The new and improved high end Mustangs continue to have performance levels that eclipse AI rules. Despite the past rule adjustments, I think it would be difficult for AI to keep up with the ever evolving newer cars, and therefore difficult for Ford to promote the AI class, and for NASA to promote Ford.

So, SI is likely a more profitable class for both Ford and NASA, and certainly easier to manage. There will likely always be some dedicated AI racers to keep the class alive, but it will be a challenge.

The other change that occurred in AI, which is another result of the new car era is the big dollars. There certainly was/is a lot more big dollar teams who have joined AI over the past several years. Which is another reason for the fractionalizing of the class.

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Is it that we have too many choices in NASA? Every additional class fragments the pool of available racers. As new people come into NASA they blend in to all of the various classes that none of them really seem to grow. NASA has a great business model for getting the most cars to a track but the racing is hit or miss.

 

Robin

 

 

Very good point. I agree with the SCCA A Sedan comment also. Not as many choices for the same car in SCCA as in NASA.

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Building it yourself ? Cars can be built for 22-26k being thrifty. maybe even a little less if your not wanting to put everything on the car and just simply get out on track and get seat time. Dean Martin has a 2010 car ready to race for 31k and So do I . that is ready to race for 30k. Both cars have just about every legal part on the cars. Try doing that in AI.

 

Been doing it for years!

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Building it yourself ? Cars can be built for 22-26k being thrifty. maybe even a little less if your not wanting to put everything on the car and just simply get out on track and get seat time. Dean Martin has a 2010 car ready to race for 31k and So do I . that is ready to race for 30k. Both cars have just about every legal part on the cars. Try doing that in AI.

 

Been doing it for years!

 

TJ,

 

Use your own hourly rate earned as a Union Electrician...multiply that by the hours spent building your 3rd gen from rejected Nascar parts...and I bet you've invested well over $100K.

 

Sidney

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Some people have only time to invest, Some people only have money to invest. Most have some sort of mix...

 

NASA has less classes than other clubs. There are times that it still feels like too many though.

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