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Track time at Barber

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Fred Crawford

I thought that link was pretty funny myself. I don't think Jimbo meant that in a rude way. The man has to have a since of humor, look at what he deals with here . Anyway, as stated a while back, it is a business, there are times when I wish for more track time , or different race schedules, but for the most time, Nasa SE has been most accomindating to us racers. If one does not like it , do another organization, like what Lemmon did. I have more respect for that than whinning.

The way I count so far..... the score is 134 ok racers to 3 not ok . I dont see anyone stepping up , offering to pay more money when Nasa loses money on an event, I am sure he has lost $ many times. Its a business folks.

 

Deere

Business Owner 2

 

Your a pretty funny guy yourself. I bet you keep your crew in stitches. What i read in jims post was sarcasm, and that the guys previous post was ridiculous. That is rude in some circles. Almost like accusing someone of whinning when they have a complaint.

So heres you some rudeness shrouded in "humor": our math is different. I count a whole lot of racers who are unaware of this thread and may or may not have been disappointed to see their track time cut after they had paid, 3 guys whinning, and one guy licking someones balls. Lol

 

Its an interesting business model. I can only imagine if i charged my customer $800/ day to work on his car, and then told him after the fact that because i had too many customers in the shop, i could only work on his car 6 hours/day instead of 8. Maybe i could then justify it by explaining that he wasnt willing to pay me more than 800/day when the shop was empty.

 

Okeedokkee..... Don't have a crew, but I do keep people laughing. I am a pretty positve and happy person. Anyway, do not take my comments personal, did not mean them that way . Secondly, you need to work on your humor a little , one professional to another.

Your imaginary business model went over my head, sorry I had trouble getting out of high school, couldn't follow.

 

Best regards

 

Deere

PornStar

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robbodleimages

I read this thread and then think back on the annual pile of questions to jim about why barber isn't ever on the schedule. lets keep in mind from here on out that doing something at barber is very hard and very expensive and that after all this time we know jim and Julie do their best to put on an event.

 

thus endith the rant. return to your regularly scheduled programming.

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427Mustang

Okeeedokeee, I will try to explain it.

 

A racer signs up, expecting a certain amount of track time for the set price. At some point, the number of racers necessitates the addition of another race group. The decision is made to reduce the track time for the racers to accommodate this. To a layperson this looks like more profit for the business, less value for the customer. Imagine me telling a customer he gets less value for his $ because I am swamped. You tried to justify it (or at least mitigate it) by referencing all the many times NASA SE has lost money on events. I can't justify giving my customer less value because I suffer lean times. Which, by the way, I don't buy. It's hard to hide money, even if you only race a '97 Mustang.

 

If you don't mean to offend, you might want to choose your words more carefully. People don't like being accused of whining, even when they are.

 

Hope that helps.

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427Mustang
I read this thread and then think back on the annual pile of questions to jim about why barber isn't ever on the schedule. lets keep in mind from here on out that doing something at barber is very hard and very expensive and that after all this time we know jim and Julie do their best to put on an event.

 

thus endith the rant. return to your regularly scheduled programming.

Frankly, you don't know what you are talking about. Barber is neither "very hard" nor "very expensive". I have first hand knowledge of the rental cost and the contractual requirements.

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robbodleimages

well, you know better then

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427Mustang

double post sorry

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n80

Seems to me that the refund policy is pretty lenient. Are racers clamoring for refunds? If they are complaining but not backing out, then it seems like the price point is compelling enough to keep them in the game.

 

But the only way to tell for sure is to see what happens with registration next year. Of course, who could blame Jim and Julie for skipping Barber altogether next year................

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Fred Crawford
Okeeedokeee, I will try to explain it.

 

A racer signs up, expecting a certain amount of track time for the set price. At some point, the number of racers necessitates the addition of another race group. The decision is made to reduce the track time for the racers to accommodate this. To a layperson this looks like more profit for the business, less value for the customer. Imagine me telling a customer he gets less value for his $ because I am swamped. You tried to justify it (or at least mitigate it) by referencing all the many times NASA SE has lost money on events. I can't justify giving my customer less value because I suffer lean times. Which, by the way, I don't buy. It's hard to hide money, even if you only race a '97 Mustang.

 

If you don't mean to offend, you might want to choose your words more carefully. People don't like being accused of whining, even when they are.

 

Hope that helps.

 

I do mean to offend..... I just don't mean it personally.

 

Deere

PornStar

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427Mustang
Okeeedokeee, I will try to explain it.

 

A racer signs up, expecting a certain amount of track time for the set price. At some point, the number of racers necessitates the addition of another race group. The decision is made to reduce the track time for the racers to accommodate this. To a layperson this looks like more profit for the business, less value for the customer. Imagine me telling a customer he gets less value for his $ because I am swamped. You tried to justify it (or at least mitigate it) by referencing all the many times NASA SE has lost money on events. I can't justify giving my customer less value because I suffer lean times. Which, by the way, I don't buy. It's hard to hide money, even if you only race a '97 Mustang.

 

If you don't mean to offend, you might want to choose your words more carefully. People don't like being accused of whining, even when they are.

 

Hope that helps.

 

I do mean to offend..... I just don't mean it personally.

 

Deere

PornStar

 

Yes, but does my illustration make sense now?

 

n80

Cutting the track time for customers who have already paid in order to accommodate more revenue is unethical, regardless of refund policy. No reputable business owner would even consider doing that to an individual, and doing it to a group is no less wrong, even if you can presuppose that the "group" will not object by exiting en masse.

 

Disclaimer:

 

In retrospect, I am not certain this is the way it went down. Perhaps the schedule always reflected the third race group. If so, then the situation becomes simply a business decision about whether or not people will find value in the product, and not a question of ethics.

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427Mustang

And here is a little more "simple" math. As it stands, the Time Trials represent about $11,500.00 in revenue (less if any of the TT entries are racers who supersized), which is dwarfed by the race revenue. And although time trials have many of the same "costs" that were mentioned pertaining to races (timing and scoring, scales, dyno, etc.), they get more time than the racers. (I hope I don't get a Ron Burgundy reference posted in response to my simple math).

 

Hard to imagine that the "business meeting" where this decision was made didn't include a discussion of these numbers. Yikes.

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Firebird Man

Most active this forum's been in awhile.

Race season must be approaching.

 

Popcorn_zps7ebae7a1.gif

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Fred Crawford

Mr Firebird thats funny....... I need a calculator to read this thread

 

Deere

2+1 = 3Sum

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epalacio19

How much time do the TTers get in comparison to the DE and Racers?

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Firebird Man
How much time do the TTers get in comparison to the DE and Racers?

 

I know at full throttle my Firebird gets about 20 smiles per gallon, not sure how that calculates to smiles per hour. Subtract and take off the one, carry the two...

Hey Deere, Got your calculator?

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427Mustang
Mr Firebird thats funny....... I need a calculator to read this thread

 

Deere

2+1 = 3Sum

Too funny.

 

 

 

Husqvarna

Finds that calculators don't help none too much with reading comprehension.

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braknl8

So, and hang in there with me, I'm only curious. For those who think the bmp event is such a ghastly insult, you're asking for a credit? If so, how much? 50-60.00? Just curious how much 7 freaking pages of griping is worth. We all wanted to go to Barber. If, that the end of last season, Jim had said, "hey folks, wanna go back to Barber..may cost a little more?" 99% would have been all for it. If it's a matter of how the business handles change and adapts.... take it up in private as you would, or expect your clients to, in your business.

 

What happened to the threads about cars, tracks and driving...?

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Fred Crawford
So, and hang in there with me, I'm only curious. For those who think the bmp event is such a ghastly insult, you're asking for a credit? If so, how much? 50-60.00? Just curious how much 7 freaking pages of griping is worth. We all wanted to go to Barber. If, that the end of last season, Jim had said, "hey folks, wanna go back to Barber..may cost a little more?" 99% would have been all for it. If it's a matter of how the business handles change and adapts.... take it up in private as you would, or expect your clients to, in your business.

 

What happened to the threads about cars, tracks and driving...?

 

Mr. Brakinglate,

Take everything here with a grain of salt. Sometimes this can be a vent forum, and that's ok. Jim P is not a virgin to this, actually he pays attention and soaks this in like fine bud from a frosty mug. I suggest you go to 'Falcons and Deeres Pondering" if you want cars, tracks and driving, and sex.

 

Deere

Taking a Licking

N still ticking

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braknl8

 

Mr. Brakinglate,

Take everything here with a grain of salt. Sometimes this can be a vent forum, and that's ok. Jim P is not a virgin to this, actually he pays attention and soaks this in like fine bud from a frosty mug. I suggest you go to 'Falcons and Deeres Pondering" if you want cars, tracks and driving, and sex.

 

Deere

Taking a Licking

N still ticking

 

Wow! That was almost as long and thoughtful as one of your rambles to Jody.

 

Sometimes I vent too....

 

Chris

Touched

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n80

n80

Cutting the track time for customers who have already paid in order to accommodate more revenue is unethical, regardless of refund policy. No reputable business owner would even consider doing that to an individual, and doing it to a group is no less wrong, even if you can presuppose that the "group" will not object by exiting en masse.

 

Disclaimer:

 

In retrospect, I am not certain this is the way it went down. Perhaps the schedule always reflected the third race group. If so, then the situation becomes simply a business decision about whether or not people will find value in the product, and not a question of ethics.

 

Right. It is definitely not a question of ethics for the simple reason that you never know what the schedule is going to be when you sign up. I'm a lowly DE'r who isn't going to Barber and has only been doing this for a few years and even I know that the schedule has to adapt to the numbers or participants and classes. Nothing wrong with having an expectation. And nothing wrong with taking your business elsewhere. But there is always an element of chance when it comes to track time.

 

I also know that from a DE perspective (which has nothing to do with the WTW perspective) that there are lots of other groups and clubs that I can pay to run with and get more track time. Sometimes a lot more. And I've run with some of them and had a good time with fewer dollars per lap...............but I always keep coming back to NASA-SE......go figure?

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Jim P.

Folks,

Years ago (1996-1999) I was a regular racer in another organization and usually brought the whole family to every event. Around 2000 I heard about a group called NASA starting up in VA. I tried them to find a fun loving group that was very family oriented - we were hooked! Around 2003 I asked Chris Cobetto why he didn't do tracks like Road Atlanta, Roebling, and other tracks in the SE. He said "they were too far for his staff to travel and he had a full schedule with the tracks he was going to". I asked "what it would take to start a region?" and he replied "volunteer and have enough funding to pay all of the track deposits, expenses, etc., oh and be careful what you wish for!". Luckily I had a very successful software business and Julie & I had made lucrative real estate investments over the years so we had the working capital to get started. And the rest is history...

 

Jump forward to 2010, a father & son team, Mike & Shawn Taylor, came to us and asked the same thing about tracks in TN, AL, MO and LA. We gave them the same advice, "be prepared to go deep in debt for many years and eventually you'll see black, oh and be careful what you wish for!" But they knew that there was more to NASA events than just money, the camaraderie is hard to beat. Eventually NASA-MS will take over this event and we'll enjoy coming down, helping out a little and watching them build the NASA experience for all of you.

 

NASA, Chin, SCCA, PBOC are no different than Five Guys, Burger King, McDonald's and Hardee's in that we all serve versions of the same thing. Some folks are always destined to eat from the $0.99 menu at McDonald's where many of us prefer the other fast food places for the ambiance and a better quality burger. It is ultimately your decision where to buy your burger, and we do our best to deliver a quality version of ours with the ambiance to go with it. Someone told me once "Some people would complain about getting chafed even if they we being hung with a new rope" - so over the years we take the comments in stride and do our best to provide solutions.

 

We are constantly listening to drivers, and we change things at every event to try and improve the NASA experience, some of experiments are instant hits and sometimes they flop miserably. My software business focused on manufacturing companies and the buzzword for them was "Constant Improvement" - we have tried to apply this to NASA-SE and always welcome new positive ideas on how we can improve our events. But the one constant we maintain thru all of this is what we refer to as the "NASA Family" - if we ever lose that it'll stop being fun and Julie & I will retire and live off of our investments, and I'll go back to being an instructor enjoying the free track time and very few responsibilities.

 

With all of that said, rest assured we always try to provide folks with the best event we can given the constraints. We'll take any and all comments, suggestions, etc. but please, if you are going to point out a negative issue, by all means go ahead and provide a positive solution that we can ALL live with.

 

Looking forward to seeing the whole NASA family at Barber in a few weeks,

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n80
But the one constant we maintain thru all of this is what we refer to as the "NASA Family" -

 

Bingo. That is why I pefer NASA events to all others.

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427Mustang
Folks,

Years ago (1996-1999) I was a regular racer in another organization and usually brought the whole family to every event. Around 2000 I heard about a group called NASA starting up in VA. I tried them to find a fun loving group that was very family oriented - we were hooked! Around 2003 I asked Chris Cobetto why he didn't do tracks like Road Atlanta, Roebling, and other tracks in the SE. He said "they were too far for his staff to travel and he had a full schedule with the tracks he was going to". I asked "what it would take to start a region?" and he replied "volunteer and have enough funding to pay all of the track deposits, expenses, etc., oh and be careful what you wish for!". Luckily I had a very successful software business and Julie & I had made lucrative real estate investments over the years so we had the working capital to get started. And the rest is history...

 

Jump forward to 2010, a father & son team, Mike & Shawn Taylor, came to us and asked the same thing about tracks in TN, AL, MO and LA. We gave them the same advice, "be prepared to go deep in debt for many years and eventually you'll see black, oh and be careful what you wish for!" But they knew that there was more to NASA events than just money, the camaraderie is hard to beat. Eventually NASA-MS will take over this event and we'll enjoy coming down, helping out a little and watching them build the NASA experience for all of you.

 

NASA, Chin, SCCA, PBOC are no different than Five Guys, Burger King, McDonald's and Hardee's in that we all serve versions of the same thing. Some folks are always destined to eat from the $0.99 menu at McDonald's where many of us prefer the other fast food places for the ambiance and a better quality burger. It is ultimately your decision where to buy your burger, and we do our best to deliver a quality version of ours with the ambiance to go with it. Someone told me once "Some people would complain about getting chafed even if they we being hung with a new rope" - so over the years we take the comments in stride and do our best to provide solutions.

 

We are constantly listening to drivers, and we change things at every event to try and improve the NASA experience, some of experiments are instant hits and sometimes they flop miserably. My software business focused on manufacturing companies and the buzzword for them was "Constant Improvement" - we have tried to apply this to NASA-SE and always welcome new positive ideas on how we can improve our events. But the one constant we maintain thru all of this is what we refer to as the "NASA Family" - if we ever lose that it'll stop being fun and Julie & I will retire and live off of our investments, and I'll go back to being an instructor enjoying the free track time and very few responsibilities.

 

With all of that said, rest assured we always try to provide folks with the best event we can given the constraints. We'll take any and all comments, suggestions, etc. but please, if you are going to point out a negative issue, by all means go ahead and provide a positive solution that we can ALL live with.

 

Looking forward to seeing the whole NASA family at Barber in a few weeks,

 

I took exception really to two things in this thread 1) the suggestion that a valid cost vs revenue evaluation led to the decision to cut race time, since if the same evaluation were done of TT, they would be getting about 30 minutes per day. 2) the glib initial response to the concerns raised.

 

If the "schedule is subject to change" means "your track time can be cut shorter", then perhaps that is where some misconception lies. My question would be, where does it end, Jim? If another 50 racers signed up, would you create another group, and cut the races down to 10 minutes? Or would you at some point limit the entries and live with the profit margin? The argument "well, we could have limited the entries and asked for more money" doesn't really float, because the price was set based on 2 race groups. You already admitted that the large number of entries was unexpected.

 

Husqvarna

kumbaya

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Fred Crawford

Just put a dang screw driver in my right eye

 

Deere

Pirate

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heavychevy

Either go, or don't. Thunder Lightning and Blitz in the same event does happen quite a bit. Which means that 3 race groups 3-4 DE groups and a TT group happens and track time must be cut short in order to make best use of the live track hours available. They don't just make up groups and keep adding them.

 

Jim has asked several times for a decent alternative, but none has been offered. Just complaining.

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Firebird Man

As far as I remember I've never seen a cap on the number of racers, but I have seen DE fill up before, not sure about TT.

 

I just hope we don't become a victim of our own success and have to cap entry numbers, what a pain that would be.

 

Being a multi regional cross over this event got big in a hurry. Only pure regional event I've seen almost book out is the June Jam at RA a few years ago.

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