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Daytona GTD finish


Firebird Man

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Firebird Man

Anyone else relieved they reinstated Guidi in the Ferrari back to first place?

I couldn't believe they tried to strip the win from him, that was some very hard racing on the last lap. Jeez, let the boys race.

If Winklehock in the Audi had, or better yet could, have held his line, there would have been contact and then I could see it. But, I'm not sure Guidi could have given him much if any more room as fast as they went into that corner, both were off line and hauling arse.

That's the kind of racing I like to see from professionals, and sometimes by us mere mortals.

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Fred Crawford

Aggreed, to fast to give the line, however, I am not sure he should of given it, no pass was completed, a nose infront does not command a line. Remember, no body contact.

 

Deere

Trail

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Firebird Man

Here's the link while it's till up.

But, you really need to go back about 3 laps to see these guys raced their butts off and swapped postions several times, this was just the final result.

 

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Firebird Man

This one reminds me a little of Jim's fireball hit at Nationals.

Car stops on track, out of view, in the racing line and wham!

 

I don't understand the Ferrari stopping on track. With no drive he should have coasted onto the grass long before where he stopped.

Bad situation no matter what, but I'd think you'd never-ever want to stop on track, unless you are way-way off the racing line and there is no place else to park it.

 

Hope both recover ok. Scary crash.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/motor/2014/01/25/rolex-24-daytona-international-speedway-memo-gidley-crash/4898591/

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Watching the Gidley crash was like Deja-Vu all over again!

 

As for the Ferrari-Audi push into the grass:

Once the trailing car has its front wheel next to the driver of the other, it is considered that the trailing car has a right to be there. And, that the leading driver must leave the trailing driver enough “racing room.” In most cases, “racing room” is defined as “at least three quarters of one car width.” If adequate racing room is left for the trailing car, and there is incidental contact made between the cars, the contact will be considered “side-to-side.” In most cases, incidental side-to-side contact is considered to be “just a racing incident.” If, in the case of side-to-side contact, one of the two cars leaves the racing surface (involuntarily) then it may still be considered “a racing incident.” [Note: The whole intent of the “wheel next to the driver” rule is to make sure that the overtaken driver sees the overtaking car.]
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I missed where the Tudor series uses NASA CCRs but it's a video you can use as an example to show how they may work to people though just don't expect their calls to mirror NASA's.

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Are you implying that the 555 did not have a right to the racing line and should slowed and left room for the 45 on corner exit?

 

Watching the Gidley crash was like Deja-Vu all over again!

 

As for the Ferrari-Audi push into the grass:

Once the trailing car has its front wheel next to the driver of the other, it is considered that the trailing car has a right to be there. And, that the leading driver must leave the trailing driver enough “racing room.” In most cases, “racing room” is defined as “at least three quarters of one car width.” If adequate racing room is left for the trailing car, and there is incidental contact made between the cars, the contact will be considered “side-to-side.” In most cases, incidental side-to-side contact is considered to be “just a racing incident.” If, in the case of side-to-side contact, one of the two cars leaves the racing surface (involuntarily) then it may still be considered “a racing incident.” [Note: The whole intent of the “wheel next to the driver” rule is to make sure that the overtaken driver sees the overtaking car.]
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Firebird Man

With the guy trying to pass on the outside he's in no mans land. Coming off the previous turn side by side at that speed there is no way the two cars can fit on corner exit. IMO he initiated the pass on the outside and it's his responsibility to finish the pass outside, but does that mean the inside guy has to give room on corner exit if none exists? He'd probably have spun if he cranked the wheel left to give room.

 

When do you switch it back to the Ferrari's advantage as he is now inside and has his wheels beside the Audi on the LH turn?

Side by side racing is just that IMO, no one has a clear claim to the line, especially on switch back turns.

 

By the examples in the CCR's they tend to show apex issues, but what about corner exit when the outside car has left the inside car no room?

It could be argued the outside car is forcing the inside car into a spin just to give him room, and just as well the inside car could be forcing the outside car off track.

 

Damn good teaching situation, I think it was ruled correctly in the end, but I can see both sides.

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To me it's commonsence,don't stick your nose where you know your gonna get it knocked off.The only way the Audi was going to complete the pass was the Ferrari would have to lift and probably spin the way they were going at it.In my opinion that was good balls out don't hold nothing back racing!

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My personal opinion witch does not represent the opinion of my employers regarding this incident goes as fallows:

 

Here is how I see it play by play: The 45 set-up the pass at entry of the horseshoe that lead to a better exit allowing him to initiate the pass at track out of the horseshoe, at that point 45 is on the out side for the left turn at full steam set up for the perfect turn-in; 555 is entering mid-track compromising entry for said left turn, at the same time 45 compromises for a less that ideal apex, with both cars side by side 555 does not backs away an goes for a full steam track out knowing that if he gives 45 1/2 car of racing room he could take the inside of the following turn.

 

I think 555 gave 45 the tun-in of the left turn, a gentleman's move more or less b/c he had no other option, then 45 and 555 went for the compromised apex, so far so good... I think at track out 555 should've gave 45 more racing room, he should've not give him the line but also not push 45 off the track since he was literally a bumper ahead of him at apex.

 

The call I heard on the radio was "penalty to car 555 for avoidable contact", but I think when the review the footage, they realized that that there was not physical contact thus could've been categorized under a racing incident.

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The Audi was even or at least had its front tire was alongside the Ferrari driver, but the Ferrari did not leave 3/4 track for the Audi at the exit of the kink.

The Audi's move was a hail mary, but under the NASA rules it seems like the Ferrari needed to give 3/4 on exit.

Is this right under the NASA rules?

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I completely agree with Rafael's analysis.

 

I also counter with -- with the Audi completely alongside the Ferrari on the outside at track out, it was the responsibility of the Ferrari driver to give him "racing room". (As per NASA's CCR, racing room is defined as 3/4 of a car width.) It would have been a different story if the Audi's front wheels were at the back wheels or rear bumper of the Ferrari. In that case, the Ferrari wouldn't necessarily have to give him room since the Audi was not alongside him.

 

As for the Audi's move being a "Hail Mary", I'll give you that. BUT, if the Ferrari gave him 3/4 car width, the Audi's outside tires would have still been on the grass & the end result would have probably been the same. Think about it, they're both tracking out & drifting to the right, the Audi's outside front tire hits the dirt/grass & loses traction. It would have been impossible for him to hold the line where he was & stay there.

 

Watching the video a few more times, it looks like the Audi was carrying way too much speed on the outside of the corner anyway to have made it stick because his corner entry was the same as the Ferrari. At that speed & being one car width off the apex, it would have been impossible for the Audi to stay on track.

 

So, "racing room" or not, I think the result was a forgone conclusion once the Audi committed to enter the corner at the same speed as the Ferrari.

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circuitmstr

he had room. He chicken'd out. You can see here that the Ferrari left him just enough room. He chose to drive off as you can see in this pic: he is already angled towards going off, yet still has room to stay on.

 

1390811717_zps55a8cd95.jpg

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I agree with sonny, the Audi wouldn't have made that exit from that line and entry speed either way. The Ferrari couldn't have stayed any tighter without a lift or brake which could have spun him into the Audi anyways. But at the point he realized it the Audi was already headed off.

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Great shot of the exit, circuitmstr.

 

It appears the Ferrari did in fact leave the *NASA* required 3/4 car width for the Audi. Another thing to consider; the Audi, knowing he was running out of room on exit, probably elected to drive straight off and save the car rather than pinch the exit and drop a RR in the grass. Anyone ever done this at the CMP kink? I have... If the Audi hit the grass with any kind of steering input he would have gone around for sure! It was probably all for naught though as I believe the Ferrari had the straight line advantage over the wounded Audi once on the highbanks.

 

The Ferrari did the right thing and IMHO, left the Audi more than enough room for fair racing at this stage in the game.

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I watched that race and was disappointed with the initial ruling. Turned it off in disgust when they were showing the Audi team as the winners. Without knowing or applying any IMSA rules it just looked to the untrained eye like the 458 did everything he should have. I did not hear about the reversal of the ruling until just now? When did it come? Sad if the Ferrari team didn't get to celebrate and get on the podium.

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To me it's commonsence,don't stick your nose where you know your gonna get it knocked off.The only way the Audi was going to complete the pass was the Ferrari would have to lift and probably spin the way they were going at it.In my opinion that was good balls out don't hold nothing back racing!

 

Completely agree.

 

And if only FS1 could have squeezed in a few more commercials!

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it was overturned about 3 hours after the fact

I was listening to the radio broadcast of the awards ceremony as I left Daytona. the Rolex watches were given to the Flying Lizard drivers … did IMSA take them back and then give them to the Ferrari drivers (and since it was 3 hrs later it's very possible that the Audi drivers had left the track) … that would sux if you were one of the Audi drivers

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Seems like it sux for everybody involved. The winning team doesn't get to celebrate on the podium, doesn't get the press interviews and TV time, which I would assume is valuable to racers, sponsors and teams.

 

Shame on the stewards for not making the decision sooner.

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Seeing that call was like watching NASCAR... but as for my 2 cents for the racing room, the Audi should have held his room on the track and make the Ferrari stay track left. Hit'em!!!

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Firebird Man
Seeing that call was like watching NASCAR... :

 

The caution with about 20 to go was pure NASCAR BS to stack up the field. Sounded like even the announcers weren't suprised.

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Seeing that call was like watching NASCAR... :

 

The caution with about 20 to go was pure NASCAR BS to stack up the field. Sounded like even the announcers weren't suprised.

 

Especially with the 10 minute shootout at the end. I am over here like.. really? Next thing you know Bruton Smith with own the Tudor series...

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David M. Pintaric
Seems like it sux for everybody involved. The winning team doesn't get to celebrate on the podium, doesn't get the press interviews and TV time, which I would assume is valuable to racers, sponsors and teams.

 

Shame on the stewards for not making the decision sooner.

 

I am friends with one of the drivers, and his coach, and a few of the crew.

 

Many of them were demorilized twice because this: once on the intial ruling, and second with the reversal but not being able to be on the top step of the podium in front of all their peers. Yes, the drivers still get their Rolex watches, but these guys can buy a watch. It's the experience that they are pursuing.

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