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PoBoyR6

Hoosier A7s

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PoBoyR6

Anyone try these yet? Seems like they are meant to grip the same as A6s but wear/heat cycle out slower. Hopefully they will be no more points than A6s based on that...would be nice to get a points assessment on them ahead of East Nationals.

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circuitmstr

I doubt many people have tried them yet because the introductory sizes are fairly obscure It seems.

They shouldn't be more points just based on them lasting longer... Lol

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Dizmm

are they going to continue selling A6's? I would think once they sell out they are done?

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PoBoyR6

Yeah apparently they got enough sizes in just in time to be eligible for SCCA Solo Nats. Just so happens that one of the oddball sizes is what I would run. Have sent a request to Greg for a ruling. Might be easier just to leave them off the table for this year until they have sizes everyone can use...dunno. But they are supposed to replace A6s eventually, same thing with forthcoming R7s set to replace R6s.

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Greg G.

NASA is going to be doing our own testing in June. There will definitely not be any decisions until after testing. If needed, we will do further testing in July. Whether or not these will be classed for the Eastern States Championship is not clear right now, but they might be. I would expect that we will have the points assignments well before the Championships either way. Of course, any tire can be used under the Non-DOT classification, but that's a lot of points for a tire that is actually DOT-approved.

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patinum

Good thing I checked here first - I was just about to order some contingency tires. Just kind of assumed since it is a replacement it would be classed the same...which in retrospect is a pretty bold assumption. Guess it will be A6s this time around.

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RockLobster

I'm curious to know about the R7 and the SM7 as well.

 

Based on feedback from SCCA SM guys the SM7 is about the same average lap times as the SM6 and R6 of the same size, but lasts longer and does not have that "magic" qual lap on stickers that the R6 and SM6 had. The R7 was a full second faster at Mid-O than the SM7 on a PTC miata.

 

I would hope we could get the SM7 classed for the championships it has been out and readily available since late last year. Personlly i think it's a 9 or 10pt tire as lap times are not any better than the SM/R6. In fact like i said slower for qualifying/TT purposes. It's more consistent and behaves more like a Toyo RR.

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kbrew8991

Hopefully R6/A6 supply does not dry up before a decision is made

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RockLobster

Yeah that is one of my worries.

 

It's going to be a tough decision. It appears the difference between the newer 7 compounds and the 6 compounds is in the consistency.

 

The R/A6 was always a tough tire to consider for TT and racing. Like i mentioned those compounds were a conundrum. 10pts was a bargin IMO for TT or qual on an set of sticker R6 but honestly 10pts was about right or a full race with how they would fall off. The A6 really was the same only amplified. Absolute hero tires when they are used as stickers (for at least that first heat cycle). Thus, about right as a 13pt tire, But, they fall off so bad after that...and were not much better than a R6 for that 2nd and subsequent heat cycles.

 

The 7 compounds especially the SM7 have less overall grip but more consistency. Making them in my opinion a more consistent 9pt or at best 10pt tire. Ive witnessed a couple SM races now where there were both SM7 and Toyo RRs running VERY similar lap times. I only have one anecdote from someone who tested a R7 and dropped a full second vs the SM7. So maybe the actual R7 compound and A7 compounds will be faster? Who knows...

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PoBoyR6
Yeah that is one of my worries.

 

It's going to be a tough decision. It appears the difference between the newer 7 compounds and the 6 compounds is in the consistency.

 

The R/A6 was always a tough tire to consider for TT and racing. Like i mentioned those compounds were a conundrum. 10pts was a bargin IMO for TT or qual on an set of sticker R6 but honestly 10pts was about right or a full race with how they would fall off. The A6 really was the same only amplified. Absolute hero tires when they are used as stickers (for at least that first heat cycle). Thus, about right as a 13pt tire, But, they fall off so bad after that...and were not much better than a R6 for that 2nd and subsequent heat cycles.

 

The 7 compounds especially the SM7 have less overall grip but more consistency. Making them in my opinion a more consistent 9pt or at best 10pt tire. Ive witnessed a couple SM races now where there were both SM7 and Toyo RRs running VERY similar lap times. I only have one anecdote from someone who tested a R7 and dropped a full second vs the SM7. So maybe the actual R7 compound and A7 compounds will be faster? Who knows...

 

I agree with your evaluation of the R6/A6 compounds 100%. Absolute magic for the 1st and 2nd cycle, then a noticeable drop off for the next 5-7 cycles then a further drop off after that.

 

It will be hard to say what the difference in performance is btw the A7/R7 & A6/R6 compounds until NASA does their back to back testing. My hope is that they are compared against their ultimate potential, i.e. as sticker tires. It shouldn’t matter how the tire performs/drops off through its life cycle. Thus if the A7/R7 compounds are more consistent, then their best case is that they are hero tires throughout their life cycle, which should mean they are not assessed any more points than the current A6/R6 compounds. I kind of doubt Hoosier can put that much magic in their compound formula so I’m speculating that they will be fairly close to the hero status of the first couple cycles of the A6/R6 compounds but will remain more or less consistent over the life cycle, which would mean that maybe they are assessed at a point or so less because their ultimate potential is slightly lower.

 

Your early indications seem to back this up…

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RockLobster

The SM7 should really have been called an SM6.5 because it has the harder longer lasting R7 compound but using the R6 construction.

 

The R/A7s are not only new compounds but new construction too from what I'm told.

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ken o

Any update? Looks like the A6 supply is starting to dry up.

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circuitmstr

Nasa need to get some to test first...?

 

hopefully That is very soon. East coast nationals is coming up and there are many people like me wondering if I should scoop up the last supply of A6's or wait and hope that the A7's fall within the same points group...

and if they don't, then those who waited and gambled may be out of luck for finding some fresh A6s at that point

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PoBoyR6

I am one of those that is holding out waiting on a decision. I seriously hope A6 supply isn't drying up cosidering Hoosier has only released 6 oddball sizes of A7s and they currently sell 41 sizes of A6s...every tire manufacturer has significant overlap when new gen tires come out before halting production of the previous gen tires...or maybe folks are anticipating that the A6s will be the faster tire and are buying 10 sets at a time to hoard them? Dunno...but I may have to re-think my strategy and start planning for the apocalyspe.

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speedengineer

Yes, also patiently waiting classification of these tires! Ok, maybe not patiently

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jcindric

I was told the SM7 is softer than the R7 by a dealer? No other word on A7 yet.

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Greg G.

The Eastern States Championships is too soon for any changes in tire points. For now, drivers should be planning on using R6's and A6's for the Eastern States Champs. No, the points for A7's is not going to be the same as the points for A6's. Of course, even though they are DOT-approved, we would let any driver run any tire under the +30 point non-DOT approved classification. (note: The SoCal TTB track record this month was set in a TTC car using +30 points for the A7's).

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RockLobster

Lovely, guess all the Hoosier guys will have to sticker up every session at the championships again. Tire budget just double or trippled....

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RockLobster

Hoosier is saying they will not have any R6s or SM6s available in Aug at all (not sure about all sizes but they are not making any more of any "6" compounds so i would guess a good many of them). Thus we can't buy from the vendor at the track and it will make life very hard on those with alliances with Hoosier and those seeking tire contingencies...

 

Waiting to hear back on the A6...but i'm guessing it will be the same story?

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ken o
The Eastern States Championships is too soon for any changes in tire points. For now, drivers should be planning on using R6's and A6's for the Eastern States Champs. No, the points for A7's is not going to be the same as the points for A6's. Of course, even though they are DOT-approved, we would let any driver run any tire under the +30 point non-DOT approved classification. (note: The SoCal TTB track record this month was set in a TTC car using +30 points for the A7's).

 

If the A6 is no longer available why would the A7 have an increase in points? It simply replaces the out going tire.

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Greg G.
The Eastern States Championships is too soon for any changes in tire points. For now, drivers should be planning on using R6's and A6's for the Eastern States Champs. No, the points for A7's is not going to be the same as the points for A6's. Of course, even though they are DOT-approved, we would let any driver run any tire under the +30 point non-DOT approved classification. (note: The SoCal TTB track record this month was set in a TTC car using +30 points for the A7's).

 

If the A6 is no longer available why would the A7 have an increase in points? It simply replaces the out going tire.

Uhhh....because it is not an A6.

 

"Any new tire or tire with a changed UTQG tread wear rating must be evaluated by the National PT Director before the rating will be legal for use in NASA PT (TT) classing."

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Greg G.

With the low supply on some sizes, we will post a Technical Bulletin regarding the new tires today or tomorrow for the rest of the season.

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ken o
The Eastern States Championships is too soon for any changes in tire points. For now, drivers should be planning on using R6's and A6's for the Eastern States Champs. No, the points for A7's is not going to be the same as the points for A6's. Of course, even though they are DOT-approved, we would let any driver run any tire under the +30 point non-DOT approved classification. (note: The SoCal TTB track record this month was set in a TTC car using +30 points for the A7's).

 

If the A6 is no longer available why would the A7 have an increase in points? It simply replaces the out going tire.

Uhhh....because it is not an A6.

 

"Any new tire or tire with a changed UTQG tread wear rating must be evaluated by the National PT Director before the rating will be legal for use in NASA PT (TT) classing."

 

 

An increase in points for the A7 will cause many of the TTB-TTF cars to yet again redesign and rebuild cars to meet points limitation in the class. Much like when the 255 Hoosier was classed as a 275. If there is not a tire option that will carry the same points as the A6 this redesign only adds to the cost of playing the game.

Edited by Guest

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kbrew8991

now I'm worried that my planning to have adequate R6 supply for East Nats will screw me (if the R7 is faster...).

 

I hope an equitable reasonable solution can be found. Maybe allow A7/R7 at same points as A6/R6 with a slight bump in min weight to account for 'em being faster or something (if they are faster - I haven't run 'em so I don't know.) for the time being and reset the points as appropriate for 2015 season (hopefully re-baseline everything so that people don't have to pull parts off or redesign mod packages too much).

Edited by Guest

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RockLobster

From what i've seen (and heard) the "7" compounds are not faster. Just more consistent over multiple heat cycles. Where the "6" compounds had a hero lap followed by drop-off in grip/times in every subsequent heat cycle, now, the "7s" have no hero lap, are more consistent over the life of the tire but also good drivers are saying they are harder to drive at the absolute limit than the 6 compounds...

 

In all honesty for TT i'm not sure a pro would be able to lay down a faster lap than the A6 sticker hero lap with the new compounds...not likely.

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