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GTS Rewards weight

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Hi Speed Motorsports

I am very happy to be running in North east GTS. I love the fact that we have good car counts. I would like it to stay that way or even grow in the future. I would like more people to have a chance to run in the front of the field. I think that a reward weight system might close the gap between the middle of the field and front. If the winner or even top 3 of a race has to carry extra weight it might help some of the others to get closer or even win a race. If the winner has to carry lets say and extra 60 lbs per win and no more then 250 to 300 lbs of extra rewards weight that goes in a designated spot in a car. The car will be more effected in a long green flag run during a race. The fast lap won't really be effected, maybe .2-.3 seconds slower. The tires will fall off giving some other drivers a chance for victory. It's not a new concept. Tell me what you think about it.

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gobuffs

So I guess you like DRS and push to pass?

 

Bad idea...so artificial.

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Grifkylian
So I guess you like DRS and push to pass?

Bad idea...so artificial.

 

^ Nobody wants to be consistently spanked time and time again on the racetrack. That's how people get turned away from running in a series or class. Yes this is "club" racing and not pro, but there are guys who can wheel their cars pretty well but just don't have the funds or car to be competitive enough to run at such a high level or as consistently as the usual front runners (Ex: E36's usually struggle to stay at the front in GTS3 because of the E46/E92 M3's wider tires and more broad power band in detuned form). Give the mid-pack cars a taste of the action of being in or closer to the front. Similar to World Challenge where you get rewards weight for winning/or finishing up front.

 

Nobody wants to see the same damn cars winning all the time (it can get really boring). Good example for this: Mercedes-Benz in Formula 1

 

Some of the best battles often take place mid-pack, so wouldn't it be a bit better if they were all near the front doing that? That would surely get more people riled up and wanting to watch them run or possibly join the class in the future too.

 

Pros:

-More of the mid-pack cars get a shot at what its like to lead or be closer to the front of the pack in class.

-Drivers may pick up pointers/skills as they watch the front runners on what to do and what not to do -> could make them better drivers (or at least go a few tenths quicker each lap)

-Even closer racing/battles to remember and learn from= more of a positive outlook on the GTS class/organizaton.

-Better for spectators

 

Cons:

-Extra weight will probably use up the tires faster grip-wise (BUT on the other hand, this may teach drivers how to manage tire wear and learn how to conserve the tires while running at 9/10ths or higher)

-People might purposely start to sandbag lol

 

Just my $0.02 here.

 

I think it'd be something to consider by NASA. Great idea Hi Speed!

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JRicca
So I guess you like DRS and push to pass?

 

Bad idea...so artificial.

 

Im not following this comment....can you please explain?

 

 

I think the idea is a good step to looking at getting action packed club racing.

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gobuffs

It's artificial....you are penalizing the guys that fast and have good cars. Just because you build a car doesn't mean it is competitive. Because an E36 isn't competitive in GTS3 doesn't mean the E46 should get penalized. If a guy isn't fast enough to win then he should either figure out how to get faster or find another class. An E36 can run in GTS2 or GTS1....still doesn't mean it will win. There are things are overdogs and underdogs, but artificially affecting the outcome is a bad idea IMO. Doing this would get your desired outcome in a round about way...you'll chase off the guys that keep winning.

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Grifkylian

It's performance balancing, not necessarily artificial. GTS goes by power-weight to define their subclasses, but sometimes that still isn't enough.

 

I guess we can agree to disagree here then. The fact that the rewards weight idea has been voiced in a positive manner by other competitors who run in/or at the front in GTS (not just Hi Speed Motorsports here) shows that the lead guys are willing to shorten the gap a bit to the mid-packers to add to even better racing. This shows utmost sportsmanship in my opinion.

 

This is club racing, not professional racing, so if you were to lose badly over and over, there is a much smaller chance that your sponsor will consider dropping you (in most cases). I hear what you mean about "turning away the winners", but I think the ratio of "turning people away" would be greater if a slower competitor got consistently badly beaten by lead cars, than if the leaders were "slowed down" a bit. We need to remember lots of these guys are their OWN sponsors, and nobody wants to keep spending $$$ for race weekends just to get spanked time and time again. In a perfect world, everyone would just GO FASTER if they weren't winning, but it's never quite that easy. Some people have no-expense spared budgets, some don't. Try and equalize it a bit to make the racing more of an enjoyable experience for all? There are kinks in the writing for sure, but it's not something completely unfair. It does make sense.

 

Maybe the leaders will have to further increase their own driving performance, rather than just rely on the car as much too. And I AM NOT in anyway saying that the usual leaders cannot drive well either (ex: Vettel with Red Bull past few years; he's a brilliant driver, but Newey's genius chassis design over the past years have undoubtedly given RB an edge over everyone else; not so this year though).

 

I think this rewards weight will make achieving that next win a little more difficult for the "usuals", but not impossible. Maybe not 250 lbs (too taxing on the car), but at least 30 lbs per win (with a max 150 lbs of rewards weight).

 

"The goal of REWARDS is to be a lead trophy, not a lead anchor,” -Mitch Wright, WC

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Ranger

Consider this. A hp/wt class is designed to create cars that are not equal because the rules allow drivers a lot of room to scheme how to squeeze out small advantages elsewhere that will add up to a superior car. The key being that the intent of the class is for the cars to be not equal.

 

I would contend that the idea of reward weight to mitigate the advantages of better car and driver is at odds with the class's defining characteristic of "our cars are not equal."

 

I race SpecE30. As such I'm biased towards Spec racing. If folks want to equalize things, they could join a class that is more tightly constrained. When I get my butt kicked it's not because the other guy has deeper pockets, it's because I suck. It's a beautiful thing. It means I need to go home and work on what is unequal...the driver. In GTS you have to go home and work on what is unequal, both the driver and the car.

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rickg87

Not a bad idea and much appreciated,

I think it would do more to mix up the top 4-5 cars than bringing up the bottom half of the class, which can be a good result.

I don't think 30-100 pds of weight will make up for 1-3 seconds a lap at say Thunderbolt. More like .1-.5

Getting into 150-250 plus pounds added weight can also be a problem/project to install. Especially if you already carry a lot of weight as I do.

Just a few of my cents..

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Paisan

Also for out of region and track record purposes it could cause issues.

 

Mike

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braknl8
Consider this. A hp/wt class is designed to create cars that are not equal because the rules allow drivers a lot of room to scheme how to squeeze out small advantages elsewhere that will add up to a superior car. The key being that the intent of the class is for the cars to be not equal.

 

I would contend that the idea of reward weight to mitigate the advantages of better car and driver is at odds with the class's defining characteristic of "our cars are not equal."

 

I race SpecE30. As such I'm biased towards Spec racing. If folks want to equalize things, they could join a class that is more tightly constrained. When I get my butt kicked it's not because the other guy has deeper pockets, it's because I suck. It's a beautiful thing. It means I need to go home and work on what is unequal...the driver. In GTS you have to go home and work on what is unequal, both the driver and the car.

 

 

^^^ sums it up nicely.

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blown5.0

I'm glad to see GTS having such larger fields, I wish we had that many cars on a regular basis in American Iron. The way I see it is this is suppose to be fun for us amateur racers and we need to make sure we are all having fun, if not that's when you start to loose folks. If I had that many cars in my group running as close as you guys do I would suggest a post qualifying coin toss to invert the field for a race to give the slow guys a shot every now and again. Lets face it, there are all sorts of prep levels in cars and all sorts of driver skill levels and nearly impossible to equalize.

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bmwjoon

We had a discussion on FB too with a lot of tangents. I think it's a good idea that can increase the fun level. Personally I'm willing to try anything if it enhances the fun level. Yes, Mike is right, we'll have problems with out of region runners, track records, etc. etc. But along those lines minus adding weight maybe there are other things we can do to mix things up. Other clubs invert fields sometimes or put race winners in the back for this same exact reason, lots of stuff we can try. All else fails we'll just drink more and eat more bbq.

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AJ Hartman

Interesting. Personally I would not be on board with a rewards weight. Just because you have deeper pockets and can buy the best car and parts possible, that does not mean you will be running up front (altho it does help). This can cause a problem for the more budgeted guy that has to be very mindful of expenses but it still very quick. If you have to start carrying extra weight, that stresses everything more and accelerates wear on everything. The brakes get used more, tranny, diff, and axles have to now handle the extra weight, bearings get stressed more, tires get used quicker, etc. Then, lets say someone wins and has to carry extra weight, but the dyno wont be at the next event next month. As easy as it is to hit a few buttons on the average GTS car to up the power to keep the car at the same pw/wt ratio will become an issue. How will that be policed? It will be very difficult to make rules to close the gap in driver talent and car prep level. There are just to many variables.

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