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flyntgr

Lotus Elise NA versus S/C'd

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flyntgr

With dyno re-classification, my Elise racer should race in PTC (though points would put it in PTB), with 160 hp and 1980lbs weight. Adding a supercharger with 220 and 2000lb car and the car would run in ST3 with 9.0 lbs per hp.

 

There doesnt seem to be many cars in either class, so which class would you recommend under these circumstances? It's cheaper to race in PTC or PTB than to add the supercharger and run in ST3. It's obviously faster to run the s/c.

 

What would you do? ...recommend?

Edited by Guest

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brkntrxn

What class is STS?

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flyntgr

SORRY! ST3 is what I meant to write.

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brkntrxn

There are currently 15 ST3 cars signed up for East Coast Nats. I'd say it is getting popular, with a good mix of cars.

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braknl8

If it were starting with your car I'd start in PTx with a N/A car. Once you go to STx, $$$ per lap is going up exponentially.

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kbrew8991

and also look at what's popular in your region - a class of a few (or more) can be fun, a class of one can be frustrating to get it off the ground. However, someone has to be first.

 

I am a fan of the PT_ series of classes, but largely because I'm just not the kinda guy that wants to spend a ton of garage time fabricating parts, testing a ton of different setups, and spending $$$$$. Yeah you go faster, but for me I'd rather be in a tight pack racing against another guy rather than circling around by myself because I'm way faster or way slower than my competition (which seems to happen as the prep levels go up).

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flyntgr

I agree with everything everyone has said thus far, and as I look at it, we have a low density of cars in all groups except SM cars, and I did that for 4 years and it got boring after awhile. The cars are slow and I grew tired of that kind of racing. I have raced in GTS3 for a year, and it is better. I believe my NA Lotus will probably move up to PTB as it is, and I know of No other racers in PTB at NOLA. How well propulated is PTB where you guys race? Is it more populated than ST3?

 

I realize tires would cost more, but if I had the low-end s/c, say a Katana 2 without intercooler, would the drivetrain become an issue with clutch, etc, transmission or engine repairs? Engine repairs are deadly to the finances, if not more serious than deadly. Seriously, is STS3 that destructive to the drivetrain?

How about PTB? Is that class hard to bankroll? Lots of breakage? What are your experiences (or otherwise within your personal knowledge) in PTB or ST3?

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kbrew8991

alot of the breakage type stuff is going to be a question of how hard you're going to have to push the engines in each case to hit the numbers you're looking for. General rule of thumb though I'd say PT would be easier because largely you're kind of limited as there is only so many mods you can chuck at the car. However, if the car has some serious achillies heel that you can't address in PT because you don't have the points (say it needs a dry sump oil system to survive) then ST would get the nod. Or if you're in a Corvette where you are in either case de-tuning the car just a touch to meet the #s it's no/little difference.

 

TL;DR = It depends.

 

Does GTS not scratch the "gotta mod it" itch well enough? ST is very similar in how wide open it is. PT you're going to be more limited.

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flyntgr

Ken, I suppose it does look as if I am looking for an excuse or "itch to mod" the car, but my actual Goal is for the car to fit into a class where it will be able to win races, or "compete" in the weight to power ratio. It would fit perfectly into ST3 with 220 h.p. and the right weight to go with it (9.00 lbs).

 

I have read in this site and elsewhere that the stock engine will not last as long if I go to 300 h.p., so I and others have interpreted that to mean that the stock engine would last practically as "normal" if it only had 220 rwhp.

 

From adding the PT class modifiers the car WITHOUT FORCED INDUCTION probably breaks out of PT class, even with Natural Aspiration. It is full-race with coilovers, cat delete, hoosiers and about 160 rwhp, weighing around 1750 lbs without driver and 1980 lbs with fuel, cool suit chest, helmet and cameras, etc. Thus, unless I find a way (like adding weight up to 125lbs) to get it down into PTB, I would be looking at ST3, but running at a severe weight disadvantage (like 12 lbs per rwhp), where the min. wt. is 9 pounds per h.p.

 

So, I could add just 60 h.p. and still fit neatly into ST3. Does this make sense to you guys? If not, what other options do you see for this car?

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ILIKETODRIVE

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braknl8
So, I could add just 60 h.p. and still fit neatly into ST3. Does this make sense to you guys? If not, what other options do you see for this car?

 

I could be wrong but I don't think just "adding 60hp" is going to get you that win in ST3. This doesn't make sense to me, to answer your question. You've said you don't want to spend a lot of $ but you want to win/be competitive. IF that's the case you need to get down into the PTx classes, wherever you may fall, and build your car to every nook and cranny of the rule set for that class. Not really many other options. Drop down and build to that class or move to STx and break out the wallet. PTA is the class you are looking for and I'm with you in wishing it were still here...but it's not.

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flyntgr

The strangest thing about an Elise is how fast it is with only 160 hp. I have yet to get its best time out of it, having some fuel starvtion and other issues I have to resolve with parts on order. It doesn't make sense for a car to get much faster with a 60 hp increase, until you do the math. Going from 12+ lbs per hp to 9 lbs per hp usually isn't attainable with only a 60 hp increase. No way should a NA Lotus with 160 hp and two occupants be able to stay close with a Corvette, and on the straight away, it won't. But with just 60 hp, it might, with a 9/1 ratio.

Of course, NA is cooler, easier to maintain, less likely to break. Lots to think about, so I am asking questions.

Is there anyone out there who has raced the Elise with or without forced induction? Just asking questions.

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Lucid Moments

I realize this is a little old, but have you considered swapping a Honda K motor in? You can get one of those with just bolt ons up to 220whp and there at least used to be a kit to swap them in. The up front cost would probably be pretty high, but then you have the power you are looking for with OEM Honda reliability.

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ILIKETODRIVE
I realize this is a little old, but have you considered swapping a Honda K motor in? You can get one of those with just bolt ons up to 220whp and there at least used to be a kit to swap them in. The up front cost would probably be pretty high, but then you have the power you are looking for with OEM Honda reliability.

Absolutely this. If they can fit a 2.4L 06-08 TSX K24A2...I have a buddy that put down 241/181 with basic bolt-ons and tune.

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flyntgr

Yes, I have looked into it. The TSX engine from a Lexus will work fine, but it is a heart transplant, and there are lots of things to modify to make it work. The shop which does the work will have to reinvent the wheel to a large extent unless someone can suggest a kit that is still being made for that purpose. Some people simply build a beefed up engine with shaved head and hotter cam, stronger bottom end, pistons, rods, etc, and spend lots of bucks to avoid the fabrication expenses and failures. It seems that nothing comes easy.

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ILIKETODRIVE
Yes, I have looked into it. The TSX engine from a Lexus will work fine...

I think you have your upscale Japanese cars mixed up.

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flyntgr

Yeah, Acura. Same problem, though.

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Lucid Moments

It has been done a number of times. Most notably by a man in California whose name I can't remember at the moment but probably will about 2am.

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