Cory M Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 Check out this video from a guy in Honda Challenge: http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=5799&sid=dcdf3044f472e950b11fd1d46653845f Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec-944#70 Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 The guy even apologized to Jason after the bump!! All this while passing TC!!! Still do not like the allowable bumping though!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Comeau Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 This video is from the guy who bathed the track in oil that weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberklasse Posted August 21, 2005 Share Posted August 21, 2005 arent they lighter and a lot faster than us? Dylan told me he saw this....I had no problem with the bump. Seemed like I had some sort of aura that weekend. 1 and 1/2 years with no contact whatsoever and then 3 times in one weekend! Should a honda challenge car blow by us through 8 and 9? I actually pulled a nice gap on him until he dragged me down the front straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Comeau Posted August 21, 2005 Share Posted August 21, 2005 The bumping isn't a good thing, but it happens and we need to learn it's not the end of the world. It happens when we're racing hard. I got bumped 3 times from behind in one race and was mad as hell. It didn't even leave a mark on my car, but just the same, it was a violation of respect for me and my car. We're racing with friends! NASA is a lot closer to pro racing than other clubs in several respects. Incidental/accidental contact is heavily frowned upon and even punished if flagrant or stupid, but because we're racing it's also expected to some extent. NASA also has more professional-like pit stop rules, which I love. They have multiple enduros during the year. NASA expects you to know your grid position and get to it on time. I really enjoy the diverse field of cars also. And the traffic is great! Different flavors of racing..........but they all taste good to me. ZERO CONTACT is the goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-Spec#94 Posted August 21, 2005 Share Posted August 21, 2005 The H4 cars have a little more hp and are lighter. We handle better and have the edge at Cal Speedway in top speed due to aero dynamics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Comeau Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 The H4 Hondas that I was chasing definitely handled better than our 944's, but we did run away a bit on the straights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Hohwart Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 HC cars are all different weights based on the particular model. The Integra in the video is 140-150 whp at 2480 pounds (probably the closest power to weight to the 944s). The next generation Integras are about the same HP but 2500+ pounds. A CRX is only 2175 pounds but 115-120 whp and an EG Civic or coupe is 120-125 whp at 2305 pounds. The power and weights cover a pretty broad range but in the end they are pretty equally matched proven by the fact each model has one multiple times since the beginning of last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITAIntegraLS Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Yeah I had a quick decision to make Push Timmey or push the othet Guy so went with the other guy. So Tim wouldent make a huge deal out of the push. Also helped the other guy gain like 10MPH extra and i lost my momentum goin into turn 7. I had a great battle with Dwain at California Speedway in march here is the video from that weeknd. 944's arent slow they are very fast when drafting. 56K will take 3 days to download. http://edomoto.com/racing/videos/WCHCMar132005.wmv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-Spec#94 Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Yeah I had a quick decision to make Push Timmey or push the othet Guy so went with the other guy. Did you really have to Push either of them? Really catching slower cars happens and while it sucks to have to back out of it is something you should have done. Do you know for sure that the "bump" will not send the car in front off into the weeds? I feel part of the skill in racing is timing things so that you don't need to back off or hit some else. Really... saying you had no choice and had to hit one of them to me sounds just like bad or rough driving. There have been many times I have needed to adjust my driving because someone parked it in corner in front or was not moving as fast. Hey we all make mistakes. That happens and I can live with that, but I WILL be pissed if some wacks me from behind becase they did not breath on the throttle and decided to run right through me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITAIntegraLS Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Did you really have to Push either of them? No i didnt but they were side by side in a narrow section of the track at turn 6. Really catching slower cars happens and while it sucks to have to back out of it is something you should have done. Do you know for sure that the "bump" will not send the car in front off into the weeds? Well i did my best not to hit too hard or into his corner. 2MPH diffference wot do anything you should try and watch some Spec Miata racing. I feel part of the skill in racing is timing things so that you don't need to back off or hit some else. Really... saying you had no choice and had to hit one of them to me sounds just like bad or rough driving. I never hit anyone but it just happened I race as clean as the next guy. and im really not bragging about it There have been many times I have needed to adjust my driving because someone parked it in corner in front or was not moving as fast. Well you are a great driver and im just a newbe thats still learning. Hey we all make mistakes. That happens and I can live with that, but I WILL be pissed if some wacks me from behind becase they did not breath on the throttle and decided to run right through me. Well just drive faster next time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec-944#70 Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Needless to say TC say s NASA is closer to PRO racing and this is a great point that it IS NOT!! If we were racing for $$ it would be differeent but this is exactly why I hesitate racing with NASA. First of all bumping a car not EVEN in your class is wrong but there are many ways around a car besides through it. If I see a car not in my class right on my backside I let him by, unless I'm in a battle myself. If you are faster then back off for a few seconds then get a run and pass into or after the corner. You are lucky the guy in front didn't slam on the brakes just to piss you off! We all share the track and can learn from each other. Contact should RARELY happen. As for the Miata's they have $$ involved and usually end up bumping each other. While I may not be at the front of the pack I am respectfull of class battles and have yet to touch anyone. If you can't pass without contact you should'nt be making the pass!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-Spec#94 Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 They don't call them "wreck me otters" for nothing. If it was only 2mph then a gentle lift should have sufficed. I even in pro racing I don't care for contact. Just because these are close wheeled cars does not mean we can bash our way around. Do that move in F1 and you have damaged cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITAIntegraLS Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Well im gonna stop typing here cuz none will understand. Plus i didnt do it on purpose. The 944's do outdrag hondas down the straights. Bigger engine more torgue. They don't call them "wreck me otters" for nothing. If it was only 2mph then a gentle lift should have sufficed. I even in pro racing I don't care for contact. Just because these are close wheeled cars does not mean we can bash our way around. Do that move in F1 and you have damaged cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-Spec#94 Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Edo, Don't get too worked up over this. You talked to Jason and all seemed OK. That is fine with me Hey some race groups may find a little bumping to be ok. Us 944 guys would rather not bump in general. If you want/need to tap another Honda or Miata fine with me. As long as that bumped car does not spin off and tag me. Maybe you might consider us 944 guys pansies or something, but we just have different idea of what close racing is. I have race hard with Tim & Jason a few times. Hard and close, but zero contact. I even raced hard with some H4 guys at Cal Speedway in March. Rick Hohwart and I got real close in turn 3. Might have been able to stay on track by little door to door contact, but that is not the way I race. So I ended up in the dirt off track. It sucked, but was far better then needing to fix sheet metal. You can race hard and close with zero contact. In general the 944-spec guys will refrain from contact and expect the same from other drivers. So if you can understand that the next time the H4 and 944 packs get close we all should be just fine. PS... Most 944-spec cars run 129-138 RWHP (129-138 tq) and all are at least 2600 with driver. BTW.... Eric, Don't get completly discouraged by the bumping in NASA. It is rather rare and I believe if the Honda Guys are aware of it we can minimize it. Remember those of us in Arizona don't have the Luxury of POC. In Arizona the other classes are very good and in my 40-50 races I have never been bumped nor bumped anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec-944#70 Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I'm not discouraged!! In all the races I have done with NASA in So. Cal, AZ and I have had 0 (xero) contact. The only contact I have has was in a POC event and the driver was one of my mates and apologize the instant I saw him. It was no big deal and I sort of expect it eventually. It's just I notice more "mistakes" on the track and "racing incidents" than I do with the POC. Not a complaint just an observation. In fact I hope to be able to race with NASA here soon again!! I just want to have fun and go home with my car intact!! Ryan and the guys run a great venue and I always have fun. I just think some of the guys out there could use a few more DE days to get car control a little better under the belt!! Like I said not a complaint just an observation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITAIntegraLS Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Man This is the only time i bumped someone and you gusy make a whole thread out of it. COOL Anyway Im missing an engine I lost it at Sears Point. So i guess no bumping will be done at next WS race. Edo, Don't get too worked up over this. You talked to Jason and all seemed OK. That is fine with me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeanutinCA Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Hey I hear a good couple bumps can help with a track record setting time? P.D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Hohwart Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Because of this thread, we all at least know what the other racing groups are thinking. After looking at the video again, the bump seems insignificant and is typical for HC4 and other low HP race groups. In fact my first reaction would be to think that the bumped car would have been happy to receive the helpful push by the in-class car he is racing against. And I were in Tim's position I would be a little annoyed that an out of class car got involved in a way that provided an advantage to a competitor. Knowing the car that was bumped is a fast/experienced driver probably was also a factor. If he had been a rookie, it surely would have been a different story. In Sunday's race (vid is Saturday's), Steve E. and I were repeatedly bump drafting the front stretch to try and catch Edik until the unfortunate oiling incident took them off the track. The point to all this is after almost 2 years of racing in the same group (for the most part) as the 944s, I can remember nothing official (from NASA) about bump drafting - avoiding it with other classes, or avoiding it all together. Edik and I only know because we look at other forums (I always like to know what the others in my race group are up to). But I bet most have no idea bump drafting is frowned upon by the 944 spec racers. Maybe HC, spec 944, SER Cup and SM drivers should get together and make thier views known so that misunderstanding about this issue (and others perhaps) can be avoided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfoley Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I was bumped by a Honda in that same race in turn 4. It surprised me but was no big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Hohwart Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I think that was me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packfill Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I think it is inproper to assume that because of a few outspoken 944ers that all of us "frown" upon bump drafting... The PROBLEM with not speaking out against bump drafting is that it then becomes the norm. I think that it is probably not a good idea to bump a car that you do not know....or who deosnt know you. However, if you are running with someone you know and bump drafting can make you faster....just keep it safe. No offense, but after watching the second video of the driving from CS that was posted on this forum, I would rather not be bumped by this car... Seeing how differently he drove the track from lap to lap, it was too unpredicable to know when he would pick up throttle, etc... However, with someone I trust....bring it on.. Heck, in karting we have a hand signal to ENCOURAGE bump drafting and if you dont use it at big tracks like SOW, you will not win...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeanutinCA Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Heck, in karting we have a hand signal to ENCOURAGE bump drafting and if you dont use it at big tracks like SOW, you will not win...... That is funny. I was going to (jokingly) suggest a hand signal for wanting to be bumped! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITAIntegraLS Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Thats why I went 1:58.5 setting a new track record lowering the old one by 3 sec. You should pay me to bump you to go faster. While you went 2:04.116 with your same line i tried all kinds of different lines to go faster. And thats my fastest time from that video and your time is fastest from the whole weekend. So dont jump on to conclusion on how people drive if you dont know what they are doin. I dont even know what Im doin Edo No offense, but after watching the second video of the driving from CS that was posted on this forum, I would rather not be bumped by this car... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packfill Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Thats why I went 1:58.5 setting a new track record lowering the old one by 3 sec. You should pay me to bump you to go faster. While you went 2:04.116 with your same line i tried all kinds of different lines to go faster. And thats my fastest time from that video and your time is fastest from the whole weekend. So dont jump on to conclusion on how people drive if you dont know what they are doin. My apologies if I offended you, No offense intended. If you read my post as carefully as I wrote it, you will notice I NEVER even hinted the driving was not good, just different from lap to lap.... As even you mentioned, different line, different pick up points, etc... not bad...different. It does however, make it difficult for someone to know what you will do next and feel comfortable bump drafting... PS: Thanks the comparison of our driving, all such comparisons are considered a complement. That particular day was my first day ever in a sportscar... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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