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Greg G.

2015 Proposed Tire Rules (TTB-TTF)

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Greg G.

Below are the current proposed rules for 2015 TT and PT regarding tires. These ARE NOT FINAL RULES, and this can be considered a comment period. However, for those of you that have time-sensitive decisions to make with contingency tires, I would say that there is a high probability that the +22 and +10 point listings for those tires are solid.

 

A. TIRES:

1) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires: BFG R1S, Goodyear Eagle RS AC (autocross), Hankook Z214 (C90 & C91 compound only), Hoosier A7, Hoosier Wet DOT (if used in dry conditions—see section 5.6) +22

2) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires: Hoosier A6 +17

3) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires and those with a UTQG treadwear rating of

40 or less not listed otherwise in these rules: BFG R1, Goodyear Eagle RS,

Hankook Z214 (C71, C70, C51, C50), Hoosier R6 & R7 & SM7, Kumho V710 (note: Continental Tire Sportscar Challenge EC-Dry tires OK (225, 245, 275) +10

4) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires: Toyo Proxes RR, Hankook TD +7

5) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires and those with a UTQG treadwear rating of

50 to 130: Maxxis RC-1 (ex. Kumho V700, Michelin Pilot Sport Cup, Nitto NT01, Pirelli

PZero Corsa, Toyo R888, Toyo RA-1, Yokahama A048, etc.) +6

6) DOT-approved (non-R-compound) tires with a UTQG treadwear rating of 120-200

(examples: BFG g-Force Rival, Bridgestone Potenza RE070, Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec, Hankook R-S3, Kumho Ecsta XS, Toyo R1R, Yokohama Advan A046 & Neova AD08,) +2

7) Non-DOT-approved racing slicks +30 (of any origin--re-caps and re-treads are not permitted)

 

 

DELETE:

Note: Exception to 5.1.2:

1) The size 245 BFG R1 and R1S tires will be assessed a Modification Factor of +0.4 for tire

size (and not the listed +0.8) when calculating the “Adjusted Weight/Power Ratio”.

2) The size 275 BFG R1 and R1S tires will not be assessed a Modification Factor for tire size

(I.e. not the listed +0.4) when calculating the “Adjusted Weight/Power Ratio”.

 

 

This rule may also be deleted, but the determination will not be made until there are more available tire sizes for comparison with new the newer tire models:

 

Exception(s) to A.8): The Hoosier 255/35-18 (A6 & R6) will be assessed points based on its actual 275mm size (and not the 255mm listed on the sidewall)

 

 

 

8) The following tire sizes will be used as the base tire size for each Base Class for all

vehicles regardless of their OEM tire size(s) or their Final Competition Class. All

vehicles in a given base class may use this tire size (or smaller) without a points assessment:

 

TTB: 265mm, TTC: 255mm, TTD: 245mm, TTE: 235mm, TTF: 215mm,

TTG: 195mm, TTH: 175mm

 

Tire width points assessed or points credited are determined by the difference between the

width of the largest tire on the vehicle and the assigned base tire size as follows:

 

Equal to or greater than: 10mm +1, 20mm +4, 30mm +7, 40mm +10, 50mm +13,

60mm +16, 70mm +19, 80mm +22, 90mm +25, 100mm +28, 110mm +31

 

Equal to or less than: -10mm -1, -20mm -4, -30mm -7, DELETE -40mm -10

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Davidss

Would you consider +0 for 200+TW street tires?

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Houstonnw
Would you consider +0 for 200+TW street tires?

 

I think that this is a great idea.

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PoBoyR6

Would you consider leaving A6s where they were previously at +13 points? This way those of us that already have scrubs/stickers can use them next year without changing our setups.

 

Based on the proposed point spread it seems there is a push to get folks running on tires that last longer than 1 weekend, which I can totally appreciate, however since the A6 is a runout tire they will be gone soon and then we can move on to R7s for our purple crack hit since the A7s will be too much of a jump in points.

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sperkins

Would you consider bringing back TTA/PTA?

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Varkwso

It does give time to plan for 2015

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Cobra4B

Yes please... I want my TTA/PTA "specVette" back

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jpreston

I like everything except deleting the points credit for -40mm tire size.

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Kubs

If I don't touch my TTA C4 for another 3 years then it will fit into vintage racing...

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Dysenpham

If you take out the +17 A6 tire that has been out of production and will likely not see much usage in 2015, you are left with +10 tires and then it jumps to +22 tires. There's no "equalizer" tire in between.

 

The deletion of the 40mm -10pts bothers me because if a 3200lb car can run 245s and take full advantage of getting pts back than why does a 2600lb car have to run the same 245s because he/she cannot get full points back for running a more narrow tire?

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jason

Who doesn't love completely rebuilding their car/setup/strategy every off season?

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brkntrxn

Greg,

 

Is there a reasoning behind the escalating tire points as new tires come out that are better? Why not do the opposite by putting the new, top tires as the max 13pts and decrease all other tire points appropriately?

 

That provides setup consistency for those that want to run the fastest, softest tires AND gives points back to those that want to run harder tires.

 

With the current trend, the top tires are going to be worth 30pts in another couple years.

 

 

Is this NASA's method for getting more street able cars into TT? Or is it to push more cars to ST? Both of which are good with me.

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ken o
Who doesn't love completely rebuilding their car/setup/strategy every off season?

 

I agree this rebuilding each year is getting old.

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ken o
Would you consider leaving A6s where they were previously at +13 points? This way those of us that already have scrubs/stickers can use them next year without changing our setups.

 

Based on the proposed point spread it seems there is a push to get folks running on tires that last longer than 1 weekend, which I can totally appreciate, however since the A6 is a runout tire they will be gone soon and then we can move on to R7s for our purple crack hit since the A7s will be too much of a jump in points.

 

I agree, leave the A6 alone.

 

If the the logic is to move to a tire people could run for more than one weekend (R7 over A7) what would keep someone from running fresh R7s each weekend? If longevity is the goal, street tires for 0 points and other sticky street type tires for lower points seems logical.

 

I would not be surprised to see Hoosier reduce contingencies with this point system.

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Bluebarchetta

I'd echo two prior suggestions.

 

First as faster tires are developed, put them into the top tire points category, and adjust others downward. This would prevent yearly setup rebuilds, and save competitors money

 

Second, absent the above thinking, leave the A6 alone at its current value. There are no more being produced. This prevents additional costs to run tires that have already been purchased

 

Rick

 

Great Lakes

TTC #318

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kbrew8991

A6 and R6 should be phased out at their current 2014 points value. Add a rider in that they're illegal for Nationals if you're worried about someone stockpiling backstock and breaking them out to take advantage of whatever loophole there may or may not be if desired.

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troyguitar
Is there a reasoning behind the escalating tire points as new tires come out that are better? Why not do the opposite by putting the new, top tires as the max 13pts and decrease all other tire points appropriately?

 

That provides setup consistency for those that want to run the fastest, softest tires AND gives points back to those that want to run harder tires.

 

With the current trend, the top tires are going to be worth 30pts in another couple years.

 

I'm not Greg, but here's my take on that:

 

The new fast tires are getting faster, making them worth more time compared to other mods. Sway bars, intakes, brakes, springs, etc. aren't advancing at anywhere near the same rate.

 

Let's say that A6's are worth 8 seconds over street tires and sway bars are worth 1 second on "the average car/track", for example. If a new tire like an A7 comes out and is worth say 10 seconds, keeping it at the same points value as the A6 messes up the balance of things. To maintain the points balance, either the new tire needs to cost more points or every other mod needs to have its points value reduced.

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circuitmstr

I personally like the new proposed tire points.

The use of the super soft compounds increases cost tremendously! A6's are only really really good for one or two heat cycles...

 

I havent been on the R7 yet. But I have been using the SM7, which is the same compound, and they are remarkably consistent.

At East nationals I was practiing on a set with 15 or so Heat cycles. To my surprise, stickers where not any faster and didnt really feel any different. I was in shock. and I am not a newbie...

So constantly stickering up with r7's would be little to no benefit which eliminates the tire spending war.

 

However, I dont really Understand why the -40mm tire size adjustment is going away.

Reason: If I run TTC with my miata I only get 7 points back for running 205's. I could run 225's for the same points with this rule, however, my car is actually slower on 225's vs 205's. Where an s2k or e36m3 can run a 225

This is yet another rule, along with the weight adjustment factors, that will contribute to heavier/higher HP cars being faster everywhere

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hhdinyuma

If it has been determined that the R6 and R7 tires are virtually identical and the points will be the same, +10, for each, then they should be the same through 2014, including West Nationals. The main reason being that if they are the same we should be able to use the R7 at +10 for the remaining events since the R6 has such limited availability. Example being, Appalacian Tire not having any R6 or A6 tires on hand at Road Atlanta for East Nationals. The R7 is temporarily classed as a +13 point tire which imposes an unfair penalty when compared to others who might have a stockpile of R6's to use. They are essentially getting a -3 point bonus on an identical tire compound.

 

Interesting also, was the conversation I had with one of the powers that be (The Power Actually!!). When asked the question "Was the R7 faster than the A6 during your testing", the reply was "Yes". Seems like there is more to this story that is yet to be told?...

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Cobra4B
A6 and R6 should be phased out at their current 2014 points value. Add a rider in that they're illegal for Nationals if you're worried about someone stockpiling backstock and breaking them out to take advantage of whatever loophole there may or may not be if desired.

HELL NO.... I worked my ass off to get a couple of sets of Hoosiers that should last me through Nationals next year. I'm not re-inventing my damn car yet again.

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AZELISE

I like the new points! Leaving the points the same as previous generation slower tires never made sense. It made the previous generation tires obsolete and it makes track records inconsistent. The proposed points make the difference between a high performance street tire and an A7 one entire class. That seems close to what it should be. Keep in mind the reason for rebuilding your car in between seasons: Some tire manufactures are making the tires faster!

 

And why get rid of the -40mm rule? Like someone else said it penalizes lightweight cars that can take advantage of the points and less expensive tires.

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circuitmstr

Exactly. Us lightweight cars are already have a major acceleration and top speed disadvantage to the pwr/drag ratio. Now we are losing another 3 points that wont affect the heavier cars running wider tires already.

If this sticks. The weight adjustment for pwr/wt ratio needs to go away...

 

hmm. How to build a 3000lb miata... ?

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ndogg

I am fine with making newer tires worth more to keep a baseline "speed per point" relationship intact. But why make the R1S cost 7 more points when it is the same tire? I have a stockpile that will be made useless. Also this throws off the previous track records and stuff when you can no longer run the same tire as previously...

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Sterling Doc

I like the ST modifier for the R1's going away in light of the new Hoosier widths in.

Overall, this seems reasonable to me.

 

I'd agree that it sucks a bit for the existing R1S to have its points changed, but that category didn't exist last year, and if it's performance puts it in the new category, then that's where it needs to be.

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ILIKETODRIVE

E base tire size is 235. Do you know of any E car that would be competitive on a 195 tire?

I'd rather rock a 215 +7 tire (+3 total) vs a 195 +13 tire (+3 total).

This is obviously under the current rules. Under the proposed rules, slightly slower and wider tires are going to be an even bigger advantage over a narrow autocross compound.

 

D base tire size is 245. A car running a 205 gets shafted BUT is it really going to be competitive against a heavier and higher whp car on a 245? I highly doubt it.

Again, new tire rules for compounds really don't benefit the under-tire'd light car that went REALLY under-tire'd.

 

C base tire size is 255. You can still go down to a 225 and get -7. No way a C car is going to be competitive on a 215 or smaller. That is my humble opinion. (I saw an E36 C car on street tires destroy the Phoenix International record [was mid-1:11's and a fairly old record; set it on Sat with full-tread Dunlop Z1 @ 1:11.0 then reset it on Sun with shaved Dunlop Z1 @ 1:09.9] and then go a little quicker on a smaller R6 later that year [1:08.8])

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