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2015 Proposed Tire Rules (TTB-TTF)


Greg G.

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D base tire size is 245. A car running a 205 gets shafted BUT is it really going to be competitive against a heavier and higher whp car on a 245? I highly doubt it.

Again, new tire rules for compounds really don't benefit the under-tire'd light car that went REALLY under-tire'd.

 

I just did the math and my TTD car would probably be fastest on 205 A7's. I am strongly against the -10 being taken away!

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Emmanuel B.
D base tire size is 245. A car running a 205 gets shafted BUT is it really going to be competitive against a heavier and higher whp car on a 245?

 

Can't speak to the rest, but YES: A certain reclassed miata on 205mm A6s can run a full second faster than E36 M3s at Road Atlanta in D, which is a high hp track. For a car like that, the -40mm credit hurts big time.

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D base tire size is 245. A car running a 205 gets shafted BUT is it really going to be competitive against a heavier and higher whp car on a 245?

 

Can't speak to the rest, but YES: A certain reclassed miata on 205mm A6s can run a full second faster than E36 M3s at Road Atlanta in D, which is a high hp track. For a car like that, the -40mm credit hurts big time.

 

 

In that case lets ban reclassed Miatas

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ILIKETODRIVE
I just did the math and my TTD car would probably be fastest on 205 A7's. I am strongly against the -10 being taken away!

You reclassed D, right? 205 A7 would be +12 if you could still get -10 credit. 225 R7 would be +6 after -4 credit. Add an * to your reclass for +13. Do you have room for 1 point and a D* reclass over a D reclass? Just brainstorming.

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Emmanuel B.
D base tire size is 245. A car running a 205 gets shafted BUT is it really going to be competitive against a heavier and higher whp car on a 245?

Can't speak to the rest, but YES: A certain reclassed miata on 205mm A6s can run a full second faster than E36 M3s at Road Atlanta in D, which is a high hp track. For a car like that, the -40mm credit hurts big time.

In that case lets ban reclassed Miatas

Haha...Unless you can figure out how to get your BRZ into the 1:38s... I'm all for it as well.

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Can't speak to the rest, but YES: A certain reclassed miata on 205mm A6s can run a full second faster than E36 M3s at Road Atlanta in D, which is a high hp track. For a car like that, the -40mm credit hurts big time.

 

Sounds like this is the reason for the rule change!!!

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circuitmstr

Emmanuel and Bob, let's not penalize a car just because it's highly developed. You have to look at specific examples like this and recognize why that particular car is so fast. Is it because the rules favor his car or he has an unfair reclass? Or is it that he is one of few who has literally optimized every part of the car, spent two years deveoping the setup, is using sticker tires regularly, and can get the most out of it with his driving? Why am I one of the only guys I see taking temps and pressures and making changes after every session? Why am I one of the only guys I see reviewing data after every session?

 

The person who does all these things should be at the front. Penalizing this guy Just allows someone in an undeveloped platform to compete with him. If you do that, someone will come along and develop that platform, fully optimize, dominate, and have new rules written for him...

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Emmanuel B.
Emmanuel and Bob, let's not penalize a car just because it's highly developed...

FULL DISCLAIMER: I have ZERO INFLUENCE OR ADDITIONAL INFO regarding the Proposed Tire Rules. I am finding out about these from this thread just like everyone else. I simply answered the question: "A car running a 205 gets shafted BUT is it really going to be competitive against a heavier and higher whp car on a 245?". I personally have no interest in penalizing a well developed car. But I believe that's why these are posted as "Proposed". I'm sure Greg wants to hear the responses.

PS: I'll say it once again, you should have stuck it out in TTD for Nationals instead of PTE...there'd have been no failure to speak of.

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I just did the math and my TTD car would probably be fastest on 205 A7's. I am strongly against the -10 being taken away!

You reclassed D, right? 205 A7 would be +12 if you could still get -10 credit. 225 R7 would be +6 after -4 credit. Add an * to your reclass for +13. Do you have room for 1 point and a D* reclass over a D reclass? Just brainstorming.

That would be my other option. But I am pretty certain that it would be faster on the A7's. With points for shocks, springs and cage reinforcements, +12 would be perfect! Separating the cage from the chassis would compromise the cage and/or chassis.

 

D* would mean stock shocks or springs or 205 R7's.

 

So, the way I see it, once the A6's are gone, there is a 12 point gap in top tires. Removing the -10 for -40mm would limit options for cars like mine with such a big gap in tire points.

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Why am I one of the only guys I see taking temps and pressures and making changes after every session? Why am I one of the only guys I see reviewing data after every session?

did you learn nothing from the TTA/PTA Corvette Mafia? Don't do all that and win by too much too often

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Why am I one of the only guys I see taking temps and pressures and making changes after every session? Why am I one of the only guys I see reviewing data after every session?

did you learn nothing from the TTA/PTA Corvette Mafia? Don't do all that and win by too much too often

 

Beat me to it.....C5 Mafia can 'splain it to you.

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I think the street tire option is a great idea! There needs to be room in the playground for MANY of us that have cars on these type of tires! I would be WAY more likely to continue with NASA if I can bring my daily driver or lightly prepared car to the track if I didn't have to buy Hoosiers etc. Make it fair for everybody. If support 0 points for for 200+ TW tires for sure!

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troyguitar
I think the street tire option is a great idea! There needs to be room in the playground for MANY of us that have cars on these type of tires! I would be WAY more likely to continue with NASA if I can bring my daily driver or lightly prepared car to the track if I didn't have to buy Hoosiers etc. Make it fair for everybody. If support 0 points for for 200+ TW tires for sure!

 

Street tires are an option in TTB-F, they're 20 or 22 points fewer than A7's. That's a full class, you don't have to compete against people in similarly prepared cars on A7's. It's only TT123 where A7 = R7 = RR = RA1 = RS3 = PSS = Fuzion all-seasons, so you either buy A7's or stay home.

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The only thing more expensive than running Hoosiers is running street tires.

 

NT01 were cheaper then streets or Hoosiers or Kumho 710. Streets cycle out faster then an A6.

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The only thing more expensive than running Hoosiers is running street tires.

 

Not sure about that Jason. We buy Federals for $60 each. They last at least 2 events. After running Hoosiers, our tire costs are 5x less.

 

Drew

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Not sure about that Jason. We buy Federals for $60 each. They last at least 2 events. After running Hoosiers, our tire costs are 5x less.

 

Drew

Yeah, but that doesn't include the cam, heads, headers, shocks etc., that the extra points freed up by the tires cost.

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RockLobster

I think we should bring back TT/PT A and then make all corvettes base class at TT3/ST3. Just so i can hear all the redneck rocket pilot's heads explode from here in great white north.

 

All sillyness asside...we cant make legacy tire the most desirable one to run just because people bought up stock and are sitting on it. How fair would that be? Make a total black market for tires? People selling sticker sets of A6s for $5000 right before nationals? Very few people buy all their tires the year before they intend to use them....

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Kumho V710s at +10pts might be an option to investigate if you can still get ahold of fresh enough ones, esp with the other autocross tires getting pushed alot higher in points.

 

I *almost* picked up a set to experiment with except I ended up with enough contingency prize R6s that I went that route instead.

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Greg- the new point assessment is what it is. I'm perfectly OK with it because everyone has to use the same points, BUT with the deletion of the -40mm -10pts rule, it no longer makes the new tire points assessment "fair" across the field in my opinion because it really limits lower weight/ lower HP cars to have to run wider tire sizes that are overkill for the weight that the lighter cars run at. Basically it feels as though the lighter lower HP cars

take a double hit with the new points AND also the deletion of -40mm, whereas heavier cars would only feel the points hit just like everyone else.

 

There's also a different ratio that cannot be ignored that comes in the form of : Competition weight to tread width ratio. Take a look at those ratios between heavier cars and lighter cars and it'll become apparent the perception of being penalized.

 

If one has to take points on going wider than why can't one receive the same points for going more narrow?

 

This is coming from someone that has seen things from both sides of the spectrum. I've used 275 tires for the most part on a 2770lb car and have taken the appropriate points for them, but really feel I'm in a jam if i wanted to go more narrow, so I feel I'm not biased here.

 

Just my thoughts to consider.

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