JSG1901 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Proposed change All sequential gearboxes are assessed an additional 0.2 lb/hp penalty in addition to the vehicle's normal GTS power-to-weight ratio. Reason The current rule excludes street car sequential gearboxes such as PDK, SMC, or DCT. There is no performance difference between a street car system and a race car system such as a Porsche Cup sequential. In fact, the Porsche PDK has faster shifts and more reliable than the Cup Car system, therefore, the two should be equal. Proposed wording All sequential gearboxes are assessed an additional 0.2 lb/hp pentalty in addition to the vehicle's normal GTS power-to-weight ratio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSCoupe Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
911.racer Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Yes, Cars running the street PDK setup with dual clutches are better than the 997 cup single clutch system that this rule was originally written for. Thanks Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Graber Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Michael G. Posted November 20, 2014 Members Share Posted November 20, 2014 I would still argue that single clutch SMG style in E46M3 and alike should not get the penalty. Michael G. NE GTS Dir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doclouns Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehounder Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 SMG (not SMC as listed) is not equal to a dual clutch system and should not be penalized equally. This was beat to death last year and no one could produce evidence that an SMG provided a time advantage over non smg, and the cars already carry more weight (because of SMG). Also curious if those penalties will apply to those with a physical disability that use those gearboxes? If so, how will you define the disabilities that qualify for this usage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric W. Posted November 20, 2014 Members Share Posted November 20, 2014 I actually vote no because where does the 0.2 number come from? It's like saying you want to limit gun magazines to 7. 10, 12, 15 rounds... is it a number pulled out of thin air? or is there some science to why they get assessed 0.2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Waite Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I vote Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikew968 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 While I hope the PDK is better I can assure you there are many difficulties in achieving better performance. Overheating is already an issue and cars going into limp mode for unknown reason happens as well. When PDK or similar gearboxes begin winning and dominating then changes should be made. There are no professional PDK or similar gearboxes that I know of in pro racing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackhaberman Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 SMG racer here in the NE. Most who I've raced with and have seen my in-car videos -- comment on how slow the car shifts -- even in S6 mode. I know I am biased, but no way that system is an advantage. In fact, it is not a true sequential. The box is an H-pattern Getrag, with computer-controlled hydraulics to shift. Please hold all the questions as to why I still have it in the car. It is on the list to swap out one of these days... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvanhouten Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brant giere Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehounder Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Honest question, (and full disclosure a just finished building an e46 m3 with SMG) are their instances of these transmissions providing an advantage in a race? I've seen this come up as a potential rule change in the past, and I'm just curious where/if this has become an issue beyond a discussion on a barstool. Not trying to start a dust-up. Just want to know if this is an actual issue or a perceived issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Michael G. Posted November 21, 2014 Members Share Posted November 21, 2014 Perceived, at least in regards to SMG in E46 M3. Michael G. NE GTS Dir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehounder Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Perceived, at least in regards to SMG in E46 M3. Michael G. NE GTS Dir. thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamflex Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 For Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7VO-VOM Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Perceived, at least in regards to SMG in E46 M3. Michael G. NE GTS Dir. This is why no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Smith Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Yes. **With the exception of the shitty BMW SMG trans...whoever thinks that transmission offers any kind of advantage needs to drive one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter*g Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 I vote yes, although it feels like it should be a percentage instead of a flat rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loftygoals Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Thinking forward--since most manufactures are moving towards automated gearboxes, shouldn't they become the "standard" and manuals be given a compensation? Additionally, shouldn't think be expanded beyond the term sequential? The intent of this rule change sounds like it should apply to any automated gearbox or gearboxes developed specifically for racing. -bj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke P. Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 For - minus SMG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbm3 Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Yes. I think it should include any gearbox that is not a conventional Manually operated H pattern style box. -Scott B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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