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PROPOSED RULE 2015: Add a scale grace factor


JSG1901

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Proposed change

Use the manufacturer's published accuracy of the scales as a variance factor for weight used for compliance.

 

Reason

Race scales can have a published accuracy anywhere from +/-0.1% to =+/-1%. For a typical race with a known 3000lb weight, back to back measurements can range from 2997 to 3003 for the 0.1% accuracy scales to 2970 to 3030 for the 1% accuracy scales. For the more 0.1% accuracy scales, it's not the big a deal, but for the less accurate scales it can be. We've all seen cars have widely varied back to back measurements on the official scales.

 

Proposed wording

At the beginning of the race weekend, the series direction will declared the variance percent for weight for the event based on the accuracy of the official scales.

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Agree.

 

1% (60lb) variance is crazy. Everyone would get DQ'ed!

Just to be clear, 60 lb is 1% of 6,000 lbs, not 3,000. So, at 1%, you're looking at a 30 lb difference.

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I vote no, but I've never experienced the variation in results so many complain about and I've been on scales all over. I suggest keeping very good rrecords of fuel level, weight results etc, and test weigh the car on the scales to be used. If there is a question, don't cut it so close.

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Agree.

 

The % allowance would be based on the manufacturer's specs of accuracy. Most scales on the market today (Longacre, Intercomp) are certified accurate to 0.1%. For older scales, this is higher. My older set of Intercomp scales is 0.5%.

 

After all the confusion around the scales at East Champs, having a consistent policy should be in the rules.

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Against.

 

The scales at the event are the scales of record. As long as the scales are open for people to weigh themselves during the weeken to figure out where they are...then they can ballast up or down. People think the scales people weigh on at home are absolutely accurate and the weight at the event is wrong...that is the issue. Weigh at the event. Otherwise people will learn the scales and adjust to what they expect the scales at the event to say (including error).

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Agreed. Just like the dyno, weigh at the beginning of the event then ballast up or down as required. Once at impound, you're measured on the same scale that you based your ballast on. Even if you don't make changes to your car between events, run over the scales before Saturday qual and adjust accordingly. I vote no.

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ILIKETODRIVE
Agree.

 

1% (60lb) variance is crazy. Everyone would get DQ'ed!

Just to be clear, 60 lb is 1% of 6,000 lbs, not 3,000. So, at 1%, you're looking at a 30 lb difference.

Technically...if the vehicle weighs 3,000lbs the 1% variance could be up 30lbs or down 30lbs for a total of 60lbs.

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I vote yes since I feel it's something that should have been practiced already. To further that, I would argue that if the scales are observed to be operating well beyond the published accuracy, they should be declared inaccurate and replaced (or in the spirit of timeliness, a larger percentage allowed until such time they are replaced).

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CARVAL Motorsports

I agree with this proposal, however, it can and will add to the regional directors weekend work load and will be somewhat confusing for the competitor. I am suprised at the variances attached to different scales, and, if that difference could show up between crossing the scales on Saturday morning and getting a completely different weight, all things remaining the same, Saturday afternoon, well, that is spooky. The rated percentage of variance should probably be kept private to the director and scale operator, or it could be utilized by the competitor, but that could cause additional unforseen problems too.

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Just a remark from the RD side of the story - I've been in charge of impound at every event from the very early days of GTS here in the NE and unless the scales are broken or malfunctioning, the reading on the same set is consistent through out. It may vary somewhat from the scales you use in your own garage, but repeatable from one day / event to another. Since we switched to the wireless pads, the consistency improved since no pinched wires variable present. If the driver not sure and runs through once prior to the Q session - enough to make adjustments if needed. Not once we had different readings from one day to another. The general CCR allows 4 lb forgiveness on the first run through scales during the weekend - see no issues with that.

 

Michael G.

NE GTS Dir.

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No. I don't see any reason why this needs to be addressed.

 

As a racer, you should be visiting the scales before your first timed session each weekend to see if they're reading differently than the scales you have at home or the scales from the previous race weekend. Then adjust from there. Pretty simple.

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CARVAL Motorsports
Against.

 

The scales at the event are the scales of record. As long as the scales are open for people to weigh themselves during the weeken to figure out where they are...then they can ballast up or down. People think the scales people weigh on at home are absolutely accurate and the weight at the event is wrong...that is the issue. Weigh at the event. Otherwise people will learn the scales and adjust to what they expect the scales at the event to say (including error).

 

Upon further thought, I must agree with this post. I now vote NO.

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Against.

 

The scales at the event are the scales of record. As long as the scales are open for people to weigh themselves during the weeken to figure out where they are...then they can ballast up or down. People think the scales people weigh on at home are absolutely accurate and the weight at the event is wrong...that is the issue. Weigh at the event. Otherwise people will learn the scales and adjust to what they expect the scales at the event to say (including error).

 

Totally agree with the above, but aren't we addressing "consistency" more here with this proposal? There is no excuse for not weighing on the scales "of record" at the event but if the manufacturer says there is a variance inherent in the scales, should we allow some leeway? In theory, you could roll on and off 5 times and get different results based on the description from the manufacturer. To me its just a matter of how much leeway then. In practice though, I defer to RD's to say if they see that kind of variance when guys re-weigh more than once back to back. If its not a real issue, then dont change the rule.

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I vote no. I go to scales after the Sat morning warm up session and get a reading for the scales for the weekend and adjust accordingly. To much confusion and work if the Series Director has to start keeping track of % differences on scales.

 

 

 

 

 

-Scott B.

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