Al Watson Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) Here are the current RCRs for public comment: RCR-SI-053114 Allow Aft mkt oil pans such as canton #15-784 in SI RCR-SI-060114 Allow ford racing 3v control pack #M-6017-463V in SI RCR-SI-060214 Allow Ford Racing brake module #M-2353-CA in SI RCR-SI-090614 Allow Lexan quarter windows in SI RCR-SI-090714 Allow any transmission cooling in SI not just the Ford Racing part RCR-SI-090814 retracted by author RCR-SI-091014 Allow Slotted Rotors in SI RCR-SI-112614 Torque ratio change 11.25:1 to 11:1 RCR-SI-112714 Change f/r weight % RCR-SI-112814 add another aft mkt tune RCR-SI-112914 Swaybar clarification to confirm FRPP bar along with any OE bar from eligible models. RCR-AI-100114 Allow Mopar Alum blocks in AI RCR-AI-112314 Allow floor mods to include torque arms as 3 links are in AI RCR-AIX-05131 Increase track width to 80" in AIX Edited December 1, 2014 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKBITN Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Wasn't there an RCR to eliminate the 53.5 % front weight bias? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Watson Posted November 28, 2014 Author Share Posted November 28, 2014 There was no RCR that I am aware of to remove the 53% rule, only chatter on the forums. Get typing if you want to submit one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbrown8439 Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 RCR-AI-100114 Allow Mopar Alum blocks in AI I'm a little surprised that this rule change is being considered. Not that I'm against it but it seems that a can of worms would open if it went through. Given that modern performance cars come with aluminum blocks and dry sumps allowing some of the older cars to build similar might make things interesting. 7.11.1 All iron blocks for AI cars must be OEM or OEM equivalent (i.e. Dart, Ford Motorsport, GM Performance Parts, etc.). AI cars may not use non-OEM aluminum engine blocks but OEM aluminum blocks are allowed. Examples of excluded aluminum engine blocks would be the World Products or Ford Motorsport aluminum blocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Watson Posted November 29, 2014 Author Share Posted November 29, 2014 4 for Spec Iron RCRs added to the list. Its past the deadline and any future RCRs will be discussed next season. gbrown8439: We entertain most reasonable RCRs. It is a consideration as ford and gm have Oe alum blocks, dodge doesn't. FYI dry sumps are a no no and not even talking about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nape Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Just because Ford and GM have factory AL blocks and Mopar doesn't shouldn't be a reason to allow the Mopar AL block. I'm still running an iron SBC and it's not what's holding me back. With the amount of modifications allowed in AI, unless you've built everything else to the limit, it's not a very high ROI. Going to an AL aftermarket engine block approaches >$100/lb weight reduction, not where I'd look at spending money if I were trying to build a faster race car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Watson Posted November 30, 2014 Author Share Posted November 30, 2014 Understood TJ. I too don't think the cost is worth the 100lbs but someone else might. Seems to me most rules permitted all brands of a similar item, ie we can all run rotors of any make, wing of any make, rims of any make, etc. So why not blocks? It crossed my mind why don't we simply allow any block or any make or brand oe or aft mkt. Then I remember things like controlling costs. If we fall back to the intent of the series below we should take note of allowing aft mkt stuff. 2. Intent The American Iron Series Rules encourage each competitor to create an aftermarket-sourced configuration that will make their car perform at an optimum level. The intent of the rules is to allow competitors to use a combination of parts that will increase the performance and competitiveness of the vehicle and create promotional exposure for vendors. It is the intent of the series to serve as a “showcase” for aftermarket tuners and manufacturers and to create tremendous exposure for their products and services while providing a friendly, accommodating, and challenging environment for the series drivers. This approach is intended to create a reciprocal relationship that will encourage the aftermarket tuners to give their full support and attention to the competitors in the series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nape Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Fair enough. I'll be interested to see how it's received. If certain rules are starting to be seen as antiquated, it might be time for other changes. If it passes, expect an RCR next year to get rid of the "ferrous center section" rule. I'd love to not have to drop $1200 on a center section (diff, gears, housing) and be able to buy $120 spur gears to do a ratio change (quick change). On top of that, it's a benefit that's open to anyone running a stick axle. Sounds like a win-win to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbrown8439 Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 From the controlling cost side of things putting an aftermarket aluminum block in a Ford running a pushrod motor is a lot cheaper than doing a Coyote engine swap. You pretty much have to go to a modular engine in a Ford if you want an aluminum block and most easy options that I can think of would be more expensive than an aluminum block for your Windsor motor. I'm not necessarily arguing for allowing them but it does bring up an interesting conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olaaf Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Al What is the full text/intent of the SI sway bar, RCR-SI-112914 and Tune, RCR-SI-112814? As for TQ going to 11.00, I personally would rather not. My car is an 2006 model/96,000 miles with the racing intake and tune- it makes 283/301 and barely clears the absolute minimum weight of 3350, which I can’t get down to anyways… this seems like it’s favoring new motors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Watson Posted December 1, 2014 Author Share Posted December 1, 2014 Sorry about that Olaaf. I update it above. Basically author wants to clarify that the FRPP bar and any OE bar from any eligible year is allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olaaf Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 OK, and the tuning? Is the request to allow open ECU tuning? I'm personally for it only if NASA truly has no way to police the Ford Racing tune, and the text in the rule book is just a bluff. no ECU's were swapped or flashed at the nationals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKBITN Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 There seems to be some issues of some cars not excepting the performance tune even after Ford has flashed the ecu back to the stock tune and Ford doesn't know why.Also there seems to be leaning issue at wot.Any tuner can fix this easily and problem solved and it's cheaper to boot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realspeeddan Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Thoughts on the aluminum block question and the intent of the rules: “The American Iron Series Rules encourage each competitor to create an aftermarket-sourced configuration that will make their car perform at an optimum level. The intent of the rules is to allow competitors to use a combination of parts that will increase the performance and competitiveness of the vehicle and create promotional exposure for vendors.” Though not stated in the rules, I have always thought that the real appeal of American Iron was that it allowed people who have ALREADY taken advantage of the tremendous amount of aftermarket offerings for their Mustang or Camaro to have a place to actually RACE without having to throw out all of their aftermarket parts and start over. Think about it. There are tens of thousands of modified mustangs out there on the street and running HPDE. All of the modifications they ALREADY OWN are NOT ALLOWED in any entry-level SCCA race class. American Iron is the only road-racing class that puts out the welcome mat for these potential racers. I know that is why I am here. I started racing with all of the stuff I already had for my street cars. All those parts I had accumulated prior to “real” racing allowed me to be competitive in my first year of competition. These people who already own these parts are the “new blood” that we desperately need to keep the car counts up. The above paragraph might sound like I am arguing for the inclusion of any-and-all aftermarket parts to be allowed. I am not. Just the opposite. I am in favor of allowing all of the types of aftermarket parts that are commonly already WIDELY USED in the street-car aftermarket. This keeps the entry cost down by allowing us to use what we already have and what is widely available. I am also in favor of rules that allow us racers and small aftermarket companies to use our creativity to come up with ways to make our cars faster. I am not in favor of allowing more high-dollar parts that are not commonly used by the street and HPDE crowd, that can only be made by larger companies with large tooling budgets. Aftermarket aluminum blocks, dry sumps and aluminum center sections fall into this category. I have been employed in the performance street aftermarket for 20 years. None of my customers already have these things. The entry cost to switch over from HPDE to racing is quite high. Making the switch already requires spending $1000 for a HANS device, then buying belts, a transponder, a legal roll cage, a car trailer, a fire extinguisher, a fire suit and many other expensive things. If the new racer then finds he also has to buy an aluminum block etc. just to be competitive we will find it even harder to keep the American Iron series going strong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Watson Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 The RCR was not specific but request 'another tune'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic_Cobra Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Thoughts on the aluminum block question and the intent of the rules: “The American Iron Series Rules encourage each competitor to create an aftermarket-sourced configuration that will make their car perform at an optimum level. The intent of the rules is to allow competitors to use a combination of parts that will increase the performance and competitiveness of the vehicle and create promotional exposure for vendors.” Though not stated in the rules, I have always thought that the real appeal of American Iron was that it allowed people who have ALREADY taken advantage of the tremendous amount of aftermarket offerings for their Mustang or Camaro to have a place to actually RACE without having to throw out all of their aftermarket parts and start over. Think about it. There are tens of thousands of modified mustangs out there on the street and running HPDE. All of the modifications they ALREADY OWN are NOT ALLOWED in any entry-level SCCA race class. American Iron is the only road-racing class that puts out the welcome mat for these potential racers. I know that is why I am here. I started racing with all of the stuff I already had for my street cars. All those parts I had accumulated prior to “real” racing allowed me to be competitive in my first year of competition. These people who already own these parts are the “new blood” that we desperately need to keep the car counts up. The above paragraph might sound like I am arguing for the inclusion of any-and-all aftermarket parts to be allowed. I am not. Just the opposite. I am in favor of allowing all of the types of aftermarket parts that are commonly already WIDELY USED in the street-car aftermarket. This keeps the entry cost down by allowing us to use what we already have and what is widely available. I am also in favor of rules that allow us racers and small aftermarket companies to use our creativity to come up with ways to make our cars faster. I am not in favor of allowing more high-dollar parts that are not commonly used by the street and HPDE crowd, that can only be made by larger companies with large tooling budgets. Aftermarket aluminum blocks, dry sumps and aluminum center sections fall into this category. I have been employed in the performance street aftermarket for 20 years. None of my customers already have these things. The entry cost to switch over from HPDE to racing is quite high. Making the switch already requires spending $1000 for a HANS device, then buying belts, a transponder, a legal roll cage, a car trailer, a fire extinguisher, a fire suit and many other expensive things. If the new racer then finds he also has to buy an aluminum block etc. just to be competitive we will find it even harder to keep the American Iron series going strong The majority of us agree with you. I feel that allowing the aluminum block for the Mopar crowd may help them to be more competitive. It will have little to no effect to the group as a whole. They still have the same power to weight limits. It's just one mod that will help a couple of guys who are considering a rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Watson Posted December 9, 2014 Author Share Posted December 9, 2014 2015 SI/AI/AIX rules are posted! https://www.nasaproracing.com/rules Changes in the 2015 rules: Spec Iron 7.11.9 Any readily available wet sump oil pan and pickup such as Canton 15-784 or Moroso 20548 may be used. The use of an Accusump or similar oil reservoir is permitted. 7.4.14 The driver and passenger side door windows must be removed. The windshield and rear glass must remain OEM. Side quarter windows may be replaced with plexiglass, lexan or similar and may be modified for air ducts to allowed components. 7.8.6 Brake rotors must be one piece iron with a maximum diameter of 14 inches. Rotors may be slotted or dimpled. 7.14.8 Ford Racing M-5490-A sway bar kit is permitted. Any OEM swaybar from any eligible model is permitted. American Iron 7.3 g) The floorpan may be modified for the purpose of facilitating the installation of a three-link type suspension. Such modification is limited to the minimum amount of material removed to allow clearance for the "third link". The 'third link' can be single upper control arm with pivots or a fixed mount torque arm. All components that intrude into the cockpit must be covered. 6.1.1 2015 mustang wheelbase and track included ’05-up Mustang 109.00 “ 74.5” 6.1.4 2015 mustang IRS included 1999-current Mustang with factory IRS American Iron Xtreme 6.1 Track Width & Wheelbase (AIX) moved from 78" to 80.0" 7.3 h) The floorpan may be modified for the purpose of facilitating the installation of a three-link type suspension. Such modification is limited to the minimum amount of material removed to allow clearance for the "third link". The 'third link' can be single upper control arm with pivots or a fixed mount torque arm. All components that intrude into the cockpit must be covered. Happy wrenching... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardP Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 2015 SI/AI/AIX rules are posted! https://www.nasaproracing.com/rules Changes in the 2015 rules: American Iron 7.3 g) The floorpan may be modified for the purpose of facilitating the installation of a three-link type suspension. Such modification is limited to the minimum amount of material removed to allow clearance for the "third link". The 'third link' can be single upper control arm with pivots or a fixed mount torque arm. All components that intrude into the cockpit must be covered. I'm confused by this? What is the reason for the change? I have a sliding third link in the car and a torque arm fixed to the axle and free in the front. Marshal Mosty has two third links in the car. Are both of our cars now illegal? Richard P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardP Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 2015 SI/AI/AIX rules are posted! https://www.nasaproracing.com/rules Changes in the 2015 rules: American Iron cars are required to have a solid rear axle or approved independent rear suspension. Was there a conscious decision to exclude the new 2015 Mustang or did it get forgotten? Richard P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Watson Posted December 9, 2014 Author Share Posted December 9, 2014 old rule: g) The floorpan may be modified for the purpose of facilitating the installation of a three-link type suspension. Such modification is limited to a hole being cut in the floorpan to allow the “third link” to pass through the floorpan to the attachment point in the cockpit. All components that intrude into the cockpit must be covered. new rule: g) The floorpan may be modified for the purpose of facilitating the installation of a three-link type suspension. Such modification is limited to the minimum amount of material removed to allow clearance for the "third link". The 'third link' can be single upper control arm with pivots or a fixed mount torque arm. All components that intrude into the cockpit must be covered. so the adjustment was to allow floor mods for a torque arm as a 3 link is allowed since technically a torque arm is a third link we just clarified that. so you are telling me you have a floating torque arm for acceleration and a separate floating third link for deceleration. interesting. Marshall was in on the RCR discussions, Marshall chime in on this please. My initial thoughts are you are still legit and we certainly were not out to discourage setups like that but simply to clarify floors can be modified for a TA as 3links are. As for the IRS we dropped 'cobra' from the table so that the 2015 up IRS is legal: old: 6.1.4 1999-current cobra Mustang with factory IRS new: 6.1.4 1999-current Mustang with factory IRS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardP Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 we certainly were not out to discourage setups like that but simply to clarify floors can be modified for a TA as 3links are. Yea, I have a decoupled torque arm setup. Glad to hear it wasn't intentional. By the current wording, I see mine as illegal because the rule allows a third link "or" a torque arm. Mine has both. I see Marshall's car as illegal because the wording allows for a "single" third link while Marshall has two third links (one for acceleration and one for braking). Richard P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic_Cobra Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Richard- Regarding your question about the IRS, read it again. OEM 1999 and up Mustang IRS is allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marshall M. Posted December 9, 2014 Members Share Posted December 9, 2014 old rule:g) The floorpan may be modified for the purpose of facilitating the installation of a three-link type suspension. Such modification is limited to a hole being cut in the floorpan to allow the “third link” to pass through the floorpan to the attachment point in the cockpit. All components that intrude into the cockpit must be covered. new rule: g) The floorpan may be modified for the purpose of facilitating the installation of a three-link type suspension. Such modification is limited to the minimum amount of material removed to allow clearance for the "third link". The 'third link' can be single upper control arm with pivots or a fixed mount torque arm. All components that intrude into the cockpit must be covered. so the adjustment was to allow floor mods for a torque arm as a 3 link is allowed since technically a torque arm is a third link we just clarified that. so you are telling me you have a floating torque arm for acceleration and a separate floating third link for deceleration. interesting. Marshall was in on the RCR discussions, Marshall chime in on this please. My initial thoughts are you are still legit and we certainly were not out to discourage setups like that but simply to clarify floors can be modified for a TA as 3links are. As for the IRS we dropped 'cobra' from the table so that the 2015 up IRS is legal: old: 6.1.4 1999-current cobra Mustang with factory IRS new: 6.1.4 1999-current Mustang with factory IRS We are discussing the "3-link" issue for those of use with and independent acceleration and braking link. Please stay tuned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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