C.Plavan Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 I just finished up an ST car and was wondering if there will be any changes in 2015. I want to make sure before I go off and buy a larger turbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Smith Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Interested in this too. GTS is heading in a direction I don't like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bnjmn Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Josh, it would be great to have you in ST2 if you make the switch. As you may know, the ST rules are much longer (i.e., more detailed) but actually quite similar to the GTS rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Smith Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Yep, I've looked over the ST rules many times and have become very familiar with them. Just checking in here to make sure that they will be the same for 2015. I could run ST2 or 3 depending on the power level I choose for the car. Those corvettes are tough though...hoping I can mix it up with you guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Yep, I've looked over the ST rules many times and have become very familiar with them. Just checking in here to make sure that they will be the same for 2015. I could run ST2 or 3 depending on the power level I choose for the car. Those corvettes are tough though...hoping I can mix it up with you guys. I feel for you on the proposed GTS rules. Looks like a mess and MUCH more complicated to deal with. More racers in ST will be welcomed with open arms. I love it when we have other cars join us... it gets boring being surrounded by the same make and model of car. I drive and own a Corvette Z06 and I am certain a properly built German car can be very competitive in the ST structure. Although I finished 2nd in ST3 at the East Coast Nationals this year to Ziggy in his Corvette, over the past 12 months I have been beaten by a Lotus in ST2 at Road Atlanta and a Thunder Roadster in ST3 at Barber. Our Corvettes are not the end-all beat-all car that a lot of people think. Most of them are just very well developed to the ST rules with damn good drivers that learned to drive under the PTA/TTA ruleset. I know exactly how I would set up a Thunder Roadster for ST3. And I know exactly how I would set up a Mustang for ST2. A BMW or Porsche or whatever can maximize the rules just as easily. -Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric W. Posted December 19, 2014 Members Share Posted December 19, 2014 The one thing Im curious on is tire for ST3. Since 2014 penalized BFGs but there is now the new Hoosier R7/A7. Should the BFGs now be allowed the - points and the Hoosiers excluded? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 The one thing Im curious on is tire for ST3. Since 2014 penalized BFGs but there is now the new Hoosier R7/A7. Should the BFGs now be allowed the - points and the Hoosiers excluded? In Super Touring, the BFG R1 and R1S had a penalty for the 275s and 245s being wider than their marked number not for their compound. So there should be no change to that section of the rules unless the Hoosier R7/A7s come out wider than their marked width. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric W. Posted December 19, 2014 Members Share Posted December 19, 2014 The one thing Im curious on is tire for ST3. Since 2014 penalized BFGs but there is now the new Hoosier R7/A7. Should the BFGs now be allowed the - points and the Hoosiers excluded? In Super Touring, the BFG R1 and R1S had a penalty for the 275s and 245s being wider than their marked number not for their compound. So there should be no change to that section of the rules unless the Hoosier R7/A7s come out wider than their marked width. The new Hoosiers are even wider than the BFGs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Firouz H. Posted December 19, 2014 Members Share Posted December 19, 2014 hello all Ok, Kevin please tell the thunder roadster group how to set up our car with out touching the engine. not possible....I like to know how I can get 20-30 mph on straights like road Atlanta or any track with long straights. the hayabusa engine will live as long as it is stock, as soon as the engines gets modified it will come apart. The attraction the TR cars have is reliability and low cost. the TR/Busa is not competitive with high hp and high TQ corvettes no if or buts. the reason TR finished a head you in feb 2013 was the short track, I was there. I did out q you. but in Atlanta you out q'd me by 3 seconds... what's up.. it is called starch your legs and that is = horsepower I think if nasa officials keep the scale of 9. then the HP and the TQ needs to come to play. you fast corvette guys have good HP but very high TQ values so simply put the TRs have no chance. merry Christmas to all kevin, I love you man even though you kicked my a.. in atlanta regards firouz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik911 Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 If the detuned, flat torque, sequential GTS cars get disenchanted and move to ST they will probably be at the top of the podium at least in ST/TT3 as well. At Sonoma in ST3 at least one of them was between 2-3 seconds faster than a experienced, regional record holding type driver in a Z06. At Laguna a GTS3 car at 11:1 ran 3 seconds a lap faster than the TT3 record in a qualifying session. But he is a national champion and well seasoned on that track. Be prepared. Full disclosure. I drive a carbureted old 911...and have no contribution to the GTS debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braknl8 Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 I'm sure I sound like a broken record but I hope they leave the rules alone for a year... TR's have a spec class they can run. No offense intended but you have an option of choosing your tool... don't try to change the class if that tool doesn't stack up on certain tracks. Hopefully the gts folks work things out but I'm sure they would be more than welcomed in STx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bnjmn Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Well, a GTS migration could be the breath of life (or simply cannibalism) that ST3 has needed since day 1, at least in the NE. It is empty now, so feel free to populate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik911 Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Well, a GTS migration could be the breath of life (or simply cannibalism) that ST3 has needed since day 1, at least in the NE. It is empty now, so feel free to populate it. It would be an unfortunate benefit, but it may possibly increase ST3 and to some extent ST2 counts. However, I'm sure they will sort it out and doubt much will change excepting a select few. GTS counts may increase though due to the averaging hp, but who knows as the rule isn't out yet. Interestingly, when PTA was done away with, it created a split in our region (AZ), where a pretty big group in PTA were put in a situation to move to either GTS or ST3. (at least the bmws and porsches). Which split the car count up into smaller classes. I like ST3 because I like TT also and it crosses directly to TT3. With a carb'd car, I can't flip a switch and change a tune to go from a GTS to a TT tune. So, it works for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 hello allOk, Kevin please tell the thunder roadster group how to set up our car with out touching the engine. not possible.... ....kevin, I love you man even though you kicked my a.. in atlanta regards firouz It isn't possible and I never said or indicated that it was. You need to add power and corresponding weight and abandon the idea of crossing over from ST3 and Spec Thunder Roadster if you want to be competitive in ST. Or you need to stay in TR spec and get rid of the idea that you can be competitive in ST3 at longer tracks. ST3 and TR were NEVER meant to be crossover classes. Like Chris said, I really dislike the idea that so many of the lower hp guys are trying to change the ST3 rules so they can crossover to their native class when it suites them. Guess what? I have ZERO crossover classes without making changes to my car? And then guess what? I can ONLY go UP to faster, higher hp classes. ST2, then ST1, then STU. Sorry, I have no sympathy because I am not allowed to do what the Thunder Roadster, Honda, Mustang, and German cars can do. I am still wiping oil off the front of my car from the fog you spewed through T12. LOL. See you in 2015. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted December 22, 2014 National Staff Share Posted December 22, 2014 Hi guys. Happy holidays! Kevin is correct. The TR's were put into ST because the guys with TR's that were still around no longer wanted to run spec cars. The option to run as a spec TR under INX rules seems to be back (went away because the numbers were down to less than 5 in the country running with NASA at the time). So, there will be no changes to the ST rules regarding the TR's. And, I think that Kevin is correct, that one can build one to be fast in ST3. Regarding the BFG's, the exception in the rules is being deleted. A 245 counts as a 245, and 275 as a 275 for Mod Factors. There will be no change in our HP measurement protocols, other than the one made in 2014 where we can test in any gear, and the driver is responsible to make sure that the car is legal in all gears. No, we won't test anyone in a gear that can't/won't be used on track. We are changing the Mod Factor for four-door and AWD in PT, but for ST, we are leaving it alone for 2015. It can be something to look at for 2016. Also, there are some that want us to decrease the Adjusted Wt/HP ratio for ST2---again, something we can consider for 2016. Bottom line---Stable ST Rules for 2015! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 "stable rules for 2015" Best news I have heard lately!!! For the record and discussions toward 2016, I would be in favor of a 7.5 ratio for ST2. It makes more sense and is more in the middle between 1 and 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCSkiBum_21 Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Thanks for the update Greg, I'm happy to hear about the stable rules for ST. +1 for a lower ST2 hp/weight ratio in the future, 7 to 7.5 would be a better gap between ST1 and ST3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braknl8 Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Hi guys. Happy holidays! Bottom line---Stable ST Rules for 2015! Most excellent! :scurries off to find the next scheduled comp school: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.R. Smith Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Greg, Thanks for stable rules for 2015. I would also be in favor of a 7.0 or 7.5 ratio for ST2 in 2016. Maybe look at decreasing slick penalty with the advent of the new A7 DOT tire. Apparently some early testing has indicated a slick performance but for double the amount of laps of the previous A6. J.R. Team Smith-Burke Racing DataMotorSPORTS.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidfarmer Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 For the record, I agree, put ST2 in the middle between ST1 and ST3. Would fit some of the higher HP production cars better, and hopefully spread the field better to discourage mixed-classes from muddling up races! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidfarmer Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 For the record, I agree, put ST2 in the middle between ST1 and ST3. Would fit some of the higher HP production cars better, and hopefully spread the field better to discourage mixed-classes from muddling up races! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavychevy Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 +1 for 7.5 or 7.0 ST2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolution Mini Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 I'll second the 7.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlwbcolorado Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 When will the 2015 Rules be posted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 RE: 2016 Rule Set To me, 7.5 for ST2 makes the most sense. A car configuration for the ST classes is pretty much identical as for brakes, tires, balanced weights, aero, etc. among the consistently competitive cars in each class. A .4 bump is given to non-aero ST3 cars, but those are rarely on the podium at big events. The only difference is straight line speed (or braking if you change your weights). With ST1 being 5.5 and ST3 being 9.4, then ST2 should be 7.45.... 7.5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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