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Greg G.

2016 Rule Proposal--non-DOT Tire Mod Factor

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J.R. Smith

After having watched the performance of the new DOT tires all season (mainly A7's). I am more convinced

that there is very little difference between the A7 and Pirelli slick (since that is the tire I am most familiar with). IMO there is no difference between the two in a TT type environment. The difference in a standard 30 min event is probably pretty even, depending on course or number of full course cautions. The same situation exists in a 45 min event, except the slicks may have a slight advantage if you can get by the car in front with A7's.

The slicks are definitely not worth the present .7 penalty.

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Xeno

D.O.T.'s such as A7's are superb for setting fast laps, not for winning races.

 

They may seem comparable on the timing sheet, but whereas the A7 competitor has to set that time during the first 2-3 laps, the full slick competitor can do it any time after his tires have warmed. From first-hand experience on A7's vs. a competitor on Yokohama slicks, it was obvious the A7's fell off part way through the race while he maintained pace and walked away.

 

TT may have a more compelling argument due to the time it takes to warm full slicks. However, I think that discussion would best be served among TT competitors.

 

I vote no change.

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Balroks

What would be really fun is no tire penalty at all, any width or compound. Then it'll come down to car prep, track conditions, and driver every single time. As it's been said, the a7's may win on the faster more straight tracks because they get a chance to cool where a slick may win on a tighter more punishing track, or a caution may over cool the slick but just cool the A7's enough. Or the R7's may spank them both. I love the diversity sometimes, but it gets rather frustrating other times. On the flip side a spec may work out better since there's no consistent brand or compound so the sponsors don't wade into our pool any deeper then necessary. Which is what attracted most of us in the first place.

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Sterling Doc

Run wide enough A7's, and they will last through a race. All the fast guys at the East Coast Champs ran A7's though a 45 minute race in hot conditions. More important than the grip from the width, is that the extra width allows you to run the softer compound without overheating it.

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Nascarracer288
D.O.T.'s such as A7's are superb for setting fast laps, not for winning races.

 

They may seem comparable on the timing sheet, but whereas the A7 competitor has to set that time during the first 2-3 laps, the full slick competitor can do it any time after his tires have warmed. From first-hand experience on A7's vs. a competitor on Yokohama slicks, it was obvious the A7's fell off part way through the race while he maintained pace and walked away.

 

I vote no change.

 

Don't tell Bill Brinkhop that the A7's fall off after a few laps. He ran some of his fastest lap times on the 23rd lap of his 2015 National Championship-winning ST2 race!

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hispanicpanic

I think it has been covered in sufficient detail that for the case of TT, there should be no penalty for non dot slicks as they're often proven to be slower or just as fast as a7's.

 

As for giving a7 a penalty vs r7, i think this would be worth venturing into for TT points.

 

While we're on the subject, TT1,2,3 cars running wide street tires carry the same lack of points penalty as cars running wide hoosers. This makes NO sense. I think it would behoove participation in classes to add points if someone chooses to test the waters in their 315 street tire'd vehicle.

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StreetSpeed

Would love to see some points given back for running a 200TW tire.

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hispanicpanic
Would love to see some points given back for running a 200TW tire.

 

 

Seriously surprised this hasn't been done already. I understand its a limited "unlimited" class, but giving points for street tires would definitely help participation and therefore help make sure contingencies are met. I've known plenty of people pass up TT3/TT2 classes because they can't afford a new set of hoosiers every weekend to remain competitive.

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Mrsideways
D.O.T.'s such as A7's are superb for setting fast laps, not for winning races.

 

They may seem comparable on the timing sheet, but whereas the A7 competitor has to set that time during the first 2-3 laps, the full slick competitor can do it any time after his tires have warmed. From first-hand experience on A7's vs. a competitor on Yokohama slicks, it was obvious the A7's fell off part way through the race while he maintained pace and walked away.

 

TT may have a more compelling argument due to the time it takes to warm full slicks. However, I think that discussion would best be served among TT competitors.

 

I vote no change.

 

I ran A's on the front of a road race car for SCCA many years ago. The tires were DONE at the end of a National Race but held up fine. I had one race where I set the fastest lap of the race on the last lap (45 miles). This was a heavy car on tiny tires on even smaller OEM wheels. It was about the most abusive car I've ever owned on tires. So yes A's work fine for racing. You just need a new set every race on some cars. Now a car with decent suspension and much larger wheel/tire to weight can get 3 or 4 races out of a set of A's.

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Mrsideways
Would love to see some points given back for running a 200TW tire.

 

Please factor into points back on this thought to the fact that a lot of 200tw tires are not availible in a lot of great sizes hoosiers ARE availble. For instance a lot of "Short" and "wide" sizes. Find a 200tw that's wider then a 245 and shorter then 25 inches. Want a 275/35 in either 15 or 17 you need a hoosier.

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hispanicpanic
Would love to see some points given back for running a 200TW tire.

 

Please factor into points back on this thought to the fact that a lot of 200tw tires are not availible in a lot of great sizes hoosiers ARE availble. For instance a lot of "Short" and "wide" sizes. Find a 200tw that's wider then a 245 and shorter then 25 inches. Want a 275/35 in either 15 or 17 you need a hoosier.

 

 

 

Well, that's life buddy.

 

 

Any updates on weather or not this rule will be changed for 2016 TT??

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Greg G.

I'd like to thank all of you who participated in this thread this year. While the rules will not be published until Dec 1st, I think that we will be able to post the decisions on the big issues very soon.

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