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H4 new weights


honda318dx

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Mike

 

Dont worry mike we dont hate you.

On the contrary we like you.

Not everyone can be like a sheep and take what comes their way, Some wolves from the herd will stand up to it and demand better. Or at least try.

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I will repeat what I posted on another forum. The Honda Challenge world doesn't just exist in one region.

 

Absolutely. However, it's pretty obvious that no one on the East Coast, or in the Mid-West, had much idea these rule changes were in the works until after they were implemented and announced.

 

Any chance we can drop back and actually have a nation-wide discussion before making a decision that has nation-wide implications?

 

I wouldn't mind losing 25 lb of lead and only having one block onboard, but I'd rather we have some sort of informed consensus.

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Absolutely. However, it's pretty obvious that no one on the East Coast, or in the Mid-West, had much idea these rule changes were in the works until after they were implemented and announced.

 

Any chance we can drop back and actually have a nation-wide discussion before making a decision that has nation-wide implications?

 

 

 

Most of us out west didnt know it either untill the change was announced.

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Hey Edik,

 

In the photo you posted on honda-tech of the engine you blew at infineon, why can't I see the adjacent pistons? In the above photo of the head, I can clearly see the adjacent valves. Did you already remove the pistons to be reused?

 

 

Here you go Mike. Just in case anyone is interested My engine is for sale after every race weekend. Come and talk to me for price.

Piston.JPG

 

I was just curious edo....you've got to admit, you car does have ALOT of power. You build some very impressive engines. I can't wait to have another shot at you next crossover. I appreciate the picture.

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Still seems like communication is the sticking point. Looks like we will need to discuss it again. Somehow, we will need to get info out to the racers....earlier. In this way, perhaps your opinions could be voiced.

Anyway, if you keep racing, we will keep trying.

 

Mike -

 

I think that this forum would be a great place for the rules committee to talk over proposed rule changes with the general HC racing public before changes are implemented. I think that most of the problem here is due to hurt feelings because people felt excluded from the process and surprised by the change. If the rules committee would open a proposed rule change as a topic for discussion, they could both present their case for why the change is a good idea as well as solicit feedback from the community, which may bring up points that were overlooked. I think that this format would also go a long way toward improving trust for the rules committee in the eyes of the racers. You still won't be able to please everyone with rule changes, but at least people would feel that their points were being considered and rule changes wouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

 

- Scott

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I will repeat what I posted on another forum. The Honda Challenge world doesn't just exist in one region.

 

Absolutely. However, it's pretty obvious that no one on the East Coast, or in the Mid-West, had much idea these rule changes were in the works until after they were implemented and announced.

 

Any chance we can drop back and actually have a nation-wide discussion before making a decision that has nation-wide implications?

 

I wouldn't mind losing 25 lb of lead and only having one block onboard, but I'd rather we have some sort of informed consensus.

 

Talk to you regional director and find out who from your area is on the rules commitie and talk to them about.

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Gez (Jerry?),

The problem is that the ruling has already been done. Any changes are suppose to take place after the 10 day period. If we were to make a change now, it still would be in place for this weekends events in NorCal & SoCal. I know that isn't the case back East.

 

If you want, the ECHC racers could have a gentlemen's agreement to keep the old weights. If you consulted the rules, the cars would be over the min weights so there wouldn't be any problems.

 

Sent you & Scott (AZ) PM's.

 

Mike

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Mike

 

1::What I forgot to add is Weght Distribution on the DC vs DA. Did you guys consider that? And also the Much more advanced ABS system of the DC vs the DA. Some DC guys are using for an advantage.

 

2::Also SCCA has classed the 92-95 Civic SI at 2340lbs, Because someone out there cant drive their Civic with a half breed DA you have to help them. Half breed cuz its between a CRX and a DC.

 

And Also Mike Q. about the comment you made for DA with a B18B, Did you get your hands on that email? Just Checking.

 

 

Edo

Throwing more Fuel on the fire.

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1) Yep. Considered them. Personally, I think abs sucks on a race car unless it is raining. As always, your opinions my vary.

 

2) that is because those guys still think vtec is such a killer. what earthly reason can be given to hold it back? no way it can compete with the class leading CRX @ that weight.

 

3a) I looked it up just now. I forwarded it to you. I was wrong about the weight you proposed. You were/are correct in that you proposed to run the 3rd Gen weight.

 

3b) I was right in that you stated that the engines were the same according to your measurements. You felt that the exhaust was were the difference was in power/torque came from. Of course, you have to right to change your opinion which is what might have happened between the email dated 8/10 & last week.

 

PS You sure got a big spoon

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1::What I forgot to add is Weght Distribution on the DC vs DA. Did you guys consider that? And also the Much more advanced ABS system of the DC vs the DA. Some DC guys are using for an advantage.

 

You just don't give up do you? you have to keep reaching and streching further and further.

 

You brought up power, and engine design, but nothing power wise is really different between the two. then you brought up suspension, and most people brought up the fact that the DA has a BETTER suspension. Then you brought up aero, and the DA also has the best aero out of the H4 cars, it also has the lowest CG IIRC.

 

So after you brought up all of those ideas on how the DA was weaker, it was shown that the DA was actually SUPERIOR. Now you have to reach all the way to the ABS system? Please stop, because at the rate your going you are providing TONS of info on why the DA should weight MORE then the DC.

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So after you brought up all of those ideas on how the DA was weaker, it was shown that the DA was actually SUPERIOR. Now you have to reach all the way to the ABS system? Please stop, because at the rate your going you are providing TONS of info on why the DA should weight MORE then the DC.

 

I really wouldent care for next year MR Civic racer. I do not give up in anything. .

If the DA chassi was superior honda would have produced it for longer than they have.

4years for DA and 8years for DC

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If the DA chassi was superior honda would have produced it for longer than they have.

4years for DA and 8years for DC

 

ok, now you are REALLY stretching. I doubt a major multinational corporation has ever made a product decision based SOLEY on the performance of the product. Especially in a car company, where new car sales are what drive their business. To say the DA went out of production because it was inferior to the DC is a fallacy, because honda and any other auto manufacterer will continually update a product to do little more than sell you another car. Just because the design has changed and uses slightly more advanced technology, does not mean it is a "better" car, especially when applied to such a specific task like road racing.

 

The bottom line is that the number of years a car has spent in production is a bad metric for determining minimum weight in a race series. If the DC or civics are so much better, why don't you run one? You are grasping at straws and fanning the flames on this far too long.

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Im bored at work and killing time dont know what to do.

 

 

Because 4 years ago when i built my car DC or EG were not classed in SCCA . Thats why. And HC did not exist.

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Why the hell should I have to request a weight reduction? The cars were decently competitive as they were. There WAS no issue. Now the front runners here on the east just got faster. Next thing you know everyone is going to request for less weight because they all want to go faster.

 

 

Maybe the front runners in the east are the frontrunners because of reasons other then their cars' classification and minimum weight. Maybe they set their cars up better, or have invested more time and money into their car, or, dare I say, "dare, dare" they may just be better drivers.

 

I would argue that this is exactly the case. Both Ian's, Andrew's and my Integras were built for Grand Am Cup by a team that has won multiple Championships in both Grand Am Cup and Grand Am Rolex. These cars were built with no expenses spared to GA Cup rules.

 

The three of us dropped another 5-7K into each of these cars as per allowences made in HC (headers, intake, fd, Hondata, .......).

 

It's a combination of cars and drivers. Ian has 16 years of race experience much of that at the professional level. He just missed out on a factory Porsche ride at Sebring with the late Bob Akin in the Coca Cola Porsche in the 80's. Ian also raced with both the Andretti's (Jeff and Mike) and beat them on several occasions.

 

I raced karts competively as a kid and later on raced in Skip Barber, SCCA and other series. I've raced karts against guys who are in CART/Indy cars and at least two guys who made it to F3/F3000 level and held my own.

 

Don't assume it's just car classification and a weight advantage that makes our cars fast on the east coast. When Ian and I started out at the beginning of the season we had little set up data on the cars and neither of us had any front wheel drive experience. I drove formula cars, spec racers, and high hp gt cars.

 

By the end of the season Ian and I had learned the cars and knocked 2 seconds per lap off our times at most tracks.

 

You could add 100 pounds to our cars and we are still going to be 1 second or two faster than the fastest H4 cars on the east coast.

 

Regards,

 

Jon

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i would agree with john in genral, nothing changed about results for the event we just had.

 

2 cars were chasing new suspension setups. The DC was running lap times on par with what he normally does.

 

 

and the DA was faster then ever this weekend, for no other reasons then the two drivers can driver and they have put countless hours of testing into that setup.

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I would argue that this is exactly the case. Both Ian's, Andrew's and my Integras were built for Grand Am Cup by a team that has won multiple Championships in both Grand Am Cup and Grand Am Rolex. These cars were built with no expenses spared to GA Cup rules.

 

The three of us dropped another 5-7K into each of these cars as per allowences made in HC (headers, intake, fd, Hondata, .......).

 

It's a combination of cars and drivers. Ian has 16 years of race experience much of that at the professional level. He just missed out on a factory Porsche ride at Sebring with the late Bob Akin in the Coca Cola Porsche in the 80's. Ian also raced with both the Andretti's (Jeff and Mike) and beat them on several occasions.

 

I raced karts competively as a kid and later on raced in Skip Barber, SCCA and other series. I've raced karts against guys who are in CART/Indy cars and at least two guys who made it to F3/F3000 level and held my own.

 

Don't assume it's just car classification and a weight advantage that makes our cars fast on the east coast. When Ian and I started out at the beginning of the season we had little set up data on the cars and neither of us had any front wheel drive experience. I drove formula cars, spec racers, and high hp gt cars.

 

By the end of the season Ian and I had learned the cars and knocked 2 seconds per lap off our times at most tracks.

 

You could add 100 pounds to our cars and we are still going to be 1 second or two faster than the fastest H4 cars on the east coast.

 

Regards,

 

Jon

 

Crap! No wonder me and my homebuilt, not to mention less than three years racing and 56 year old body, have so much trouble with youse guys.

 

But I'll get you yet. And I enjoy the racing anyway.

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