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Detuning


7VO-VOM

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Just a suggestion to the powers that be, while this detuning limiting rule is being proposed, etc, I think what should be done first is the impounding process. Maybe require an updated dyno sheet to be turned in at the beginning of each race weekend? Forgive me if that is already being done.

 

I know people often switch between classes in GTS, and I'm assuming that's where the 'anxiety' comes from, from those proposing the rules? Worrying people are running their GTS4 ECU tune when they're running in GTS3? Most will hate me for saying this, but maybe NASA should limit the amount of times you can 'switch between classes' during the year? Rather than forcing cars to stick within one class per racing season (for police-ing reasons), they allow only 1 switch to a different class, and then they must stay there until the end of the season? This may help keep track of certain cars' performance on the track.

 

Regarding the 'sealed' ECU's idea, I would like to think that most drivers with detunes and such wouldn't mind having some sort of marker or seal to show that the ECU has not been refreshed, changed, or disconnected from the car etc. If the seal is ripped because it was removed from the car, then a form needs to be sent in explaining to NASA why the seal was broken. If it means that the current, more simple rules stay intact, I think that most would be in favor of that instead of this numbers-intensive formula just proposed. Not sure how often people remove their ECU's in between race weekends though...

 

Somebody said in another thread that regardless of the car's power, "the fast guys will always be in front". This is true. And of course no one like to have their behind's handed to them time-and-time again, however, lots of guys with baller-builds (like Cabrera), don't rely solely on their car to win. They can actually wheel it pretty well. Drivers like Cabrera and others get in cars very different from their GTS cars at times, some not even German-made, and they've outperformed their competitors by a long shot. Talent and skill should not be penalized for constantly winning. I get that the proposal focus is on "Power" because that's something that can be adjusted to somewhat-equalize the competition though.

 

Overall, I think change is good, but drastic changes like the 'Limiting Detuning' rule is a bit aggressive due to its complexity. It's a lot of work for you, MG, and other NASA officials to put into effect if it were to get there.

 

At the end of the day, we race because we love it and have fun doing it, no?

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For what it's worth:

 

This was my first year racing in GTS, (or any racing), and I chose NASA because of it's reputation for being more of a casual organization and GTS because of an affinity for the cars. In 2015 I ran my E36 M3 with a 3.0 S50 with a completely stock drivetrain and ECU (6400 RPM limit, 210hp) in GTS2. I went to East Coast Nationals at the request of a friend and ended up being competitive; running low 2.09 first time out at VIR and in the hunt for a podium until I broke. I'm no Michael Schumacher so I'm pretty sure my car is competitive.

 

As a competitor I'm not worried about competing against detuned cars, I have not seen evidence of huge acceleration disparities in GTS2. I do however understand the concerns about being able to switch tunes on the fly. An accurate AIM type box would be great and I'm more than happy to share my data. Until that's ready, what I don't understand is why we cannot check if the ECU has a wire going to it or is wireless capable? Wouldn't that eliminate the on the fly switching questions for most competitors?

 

Either way, my experience at the nationals with constant scrutiny and confusion was not great and after reading these discussions I'm afraid it may get worse.

 

Kerry James

#44 GTS2

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For what it's worth:

 

This was my first year racing in GTS, (or any racing), and I chose NASA because of it's reputation for being more of a casual organization and GTS because of an affinity for the cars. In 2015 I ran my E36 M3 with a 3.0 S50 with a completely stock drivetrain and ECU (6400 RPM limit, 210hp) in GTS2. I went to East Coast Nationals at the request of a friend and ended up being competitive; running low 2.09 first time out at VIR and in the hunt for a podium until I broke. I'm no Michael Schumacher so I'm pretty sure my car is competitive.

 

As a competitor I'm not worried about competing against detuned cars, I have not seen evidence of huge acceleration disparities in GTS2. I do however understand the concerns about being able to switch tunes on the fly. An accurate AIM type box would be great and I'm more than happy to share my data. Until that's ready, what I don't understand is why we cannot check if the ECU has a wire going to it or is wireless capable? Wouldn't that eliminate the on the fly switching questions for most competitors?

 

Either way, my experience at the nationals with constant scrutiny and confusion was not great and after reading these discussions I'm afraid it may get worse.

 

Kerry James

#44 GTS2

 

What?! Are you trying to tell me with an S50 you were able to compete with and run faster lap times than the 2 guys running S54's Stop trying to make logical recommendations and observations. We are well past that.lol

 

Lawrence Gibson

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For what it's worth:

 

Either way, my experience at the nationals with constant scrutiny and confusion was not great and after reading these discussions I'm afraid it may get worse.

 

Kerry James

#44 GTS2

 

 

I'm curious about your experience at Nationals with respect to the constant scrutiny and confusion. I just started in GTS2 and plan on going to Nationals at some point in the future, but don't want it to be a miserable experience. Can you provide some details?

 

Cheers,

 

Garrett

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For what it's worth:

 

Either way, my experience at the nationals with constant scrutiny and confusion was not great and after reading these discussions I'm afraid it may get worse.

 

Kerry James

#44 GTS2

 

 

I'm curious about your experience at Nationals with respect to the constant scrutiny and confusion. I just started in GTS2 and plan on going to Nationals at some point in the future, but don't want it to be a miserable experience. Can you provide some details?

 

Cheers,

 

Garrett

 

 

The top guys essentially had to go to scales, dyno, and AIM data collection after every qualy and race. In MA that's similar to a regular weekend for us but from what I've learned, it's not what happens in most regions since they don't have AIM or dyno's at events. So if someone goes to Nationals unfamiliar with that level of scrutiny I can certainly see it being a shock. Also doesn't help that the dyno had a 5-10whp variance depending on when you got on it. So most of us were running an extra 50-100lbs for finals to compensate for it. To be honest, this level of scrutiny is what I would think racers would want at a National event. Neutralizes the playing field which is the whole point of power to weight racing.

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What?! Are you trying to tell me with an S50 you were able to compete with and run faster lap times than the 2 guys running S54's Stop trying to make logical recommendations and observations. We are well past that.lol

 

Lawrence Gibson

 

Hi Lawrence, that's what I'm humbly suggesting, I don't think detuning is large enough of an issue in our class to outlaw it, even though I seem to be the most at risk from it! Also note that Zach Hillman, who handed our asses to each of us, also runs a 3.0 which can't be too detuned at over 200hp.

 

The focus should be on getting better at ensuring compliance. I do see someone suggested a sealed ECU concept, that's along the lines of what I was suggesting above and seems like a useful conversation.

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For what it's worth:

 

Either way, my experience at the nationals with constant scrutiny and confusion was not great and after reading these discussions I'm afraid it may get worse.

 

Kerry James

#44 GTS2

 

 

I'm curious about your experience at Nationals with respect to the constant scrutiny and confusion. I just started in GTS2 and plan on going to Nationals at some point in the future, but don't want it to be a miserable experience. Can you provide some details?

 

Cheers,

 

Garrett

 

 

Hi Garrett - maybe I should restate this; my overall experience was positive, the track was amazing and my competitors approachable and fun to race with and the NASA staff were always helpful. What I was referring to was, for a first timer, an obvious difference in how the classes were being run. I.e. in GTS we had literally hour+ of driver meetings every day and most of that time was spent going through compliance stuff. Of course at nationals there is more at stake but there seems to be noticable difference in how GTS was dealt with compared to the other classes. I DO NOT think that's the fault of the people running the class, they are good people trying to avoid previous issues. I bring it up in the context of the conversion: the situation is mostly likely to get better with a simple rule set that is enforceable, that's all.

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As a competitor I'm not worried about competing against detuned cars, I have not seen evidence of huge acceleration disparities in GTS2. I do however understand the concerns about being able to switch tunes on the fly. An accurate AIM type box would be great and I'm more than happy to share my data. Until that's ready, what I don't understand is why we cannot check if the ECU has a wire going to it or is wireless capable? Wouldn't that eliminate the on the fly switching questions for most competitors?

 

Either way, my experience at the nationals with constant scrutiny and confusion was not great and after reading these discussions I'm afraid it may get worse.

Checking the ECU is currently within the rules. If you have a means of switching the tune, it must be declared.

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