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Greg G.

ST4 Rules Proposal Thread--give your input here

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rubbertoes
Proposed rules around the beginning of July '16.

 

Hello.

 

Any update on this by chance?

 

Thanks for all you do!

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AZ R3
Proposed rules around the beginning of July '16.

 

Hello.

 

Any update on this by chance?

 

Thanks for all you do!

 

Hes got 4 days left lol

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flier129

Today is the day, I can feel it!

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AZ R3

Honestly I am pretty disappointed, the provisional rules were promised over a month ago and I know a lot of people are waiting to get to work on their TT4 setup based on what is going to be in the rules - I know I am.

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Mrsideways

I haven't seen any official posts in a while. Anyone still pay attention to this forum?

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soundguydave

Easy, guys....

 

Greg, just like the vast majority of us, has a day job as well...

 

Yes, we're all (im)patiently waiting for the rules before we start making sparks...

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Mrsideways

He needs to feed us a nugget just to keep the wolves at bay.

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AZ R3

Everyone who complains that the rules are late will get dyno reclassed into stu/ttu

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JHo

I have not registered for Nationals this year because I have no clue how much money I may, or may not, need to spend to get my TTC car into a reasonably competitive state for TT4 next year. A brief outline of which classes stay and go, and some outline of the TT4 rules would be helpful.

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AZ R3

Not to mention people who may end up running other orgs next year because they got tired of waiting around for ST4 rules lol

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Roundel

A big question I have is, what will the tire size modifiers be? If they are the same as TT3, it's a huge advantage to run 245s. I think a lot of cars running in TT4 will run 245 Hoosiers. Should there really be that big of a modifier for a typical sized tire? In TT3, that's probably a small tire, and there is some sacrifice to running that size, where the modifier makes more sense.

 

The TT3 245 size modifier would turn TT4 into a 11.3 ratio, for many. That's a big jump, at least for me - running a E36 M3 in TTB, I'm around 12.5 - 13, depending on tire choice and ballast. Of course, this is complete speculation on Greg's comments that TT4 will be very close to TT3 rules.

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JCathers
A big question I have is, what will the tire size modifiers be? If they are the same as TT3, it's a huge advantage to run 245s. I think a lot of cars running in TT4 will run 245 Hoosiers. Should there really be that big of a modifier for a typical sized tire? In TT3, that's probably a small tire, and there is some sacrifice to running that size, where the modifier makes more sense.

 

The TT3 245 size modifier would turn TT4 into a 11.3 ratio, for many. That's a big jump, at least for me - running a E36 M3 in TTB, I'm around 12.5 - 13, depending on tire choice and ballast. Of course, this is complete speculation on Greg's comments that TT4 will be very close to TT3 rules.

 

^- this. I think tire modifiers should be closer to the TTB-F rule-set for TT4, since the majority of people in TT4 are going to be in the 225-275 range.

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FastNotFurious

Really liking the idea of ST4... have been racing NASA 4 years and have had a "field' maybe 6 times for my car class... that sucks. Hoping ST4 will bring a field in each region.

 

I also like the idea of close competition but minimal restrictions on car build/prep - mainly power/weight opens some exciting possibilities I've been wanting to explore... (actually already starting the refit )... so would REALLY like to see some draft rules soon - it'll take me a few months to get the car updated!! I think several cars in different regions in my class will come over - I think 3 in my class alone in my just my region...

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rubbertoes

Hi NASA Admins. I know you're hard at work on finalizing the ST4 rules. Any chance we can get a new estimated release date since we're beyond the initial estimated date of Early July? Just want to make sure I have time to prep car as season will start in January for us in the desert.

 

Thanks for all you do!

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JonB

Is ST4 still going to happen for 2017 and if so, can we get an estimate on they will be released, or perhaps a draft of the rules?

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Mike 40
Is ST4 still going to happen for 2017?...

 

I'm sure developing rules for a new class must be extremely challenging and time consuming, but I'm also sure many of us would benefit greatly if someone could at least answer this one question.

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Greg G.

Sorry guys! The answer is YES, it is happening for 2017.

 

The continued issues we are dealing with are not so much what happens with ST4/TT4, but what happens with the other classes (like PTC/TTC), and to not put this info out at the same time would be confusing to many ("Why do we have ST4 at 12:1, and PTC is still at 12:1?").

 

Remember, as in before the complaints that ST4 is not identical to ST3, that our goal is to have great racing, but start to apply some reasonable limitations that the drivers (and their budgets) are accustomed to in PTB/PTC.

 

BUT, here is what I'm 95% certain we are going with for 2017, and I hope that we will have the rest before the end of the month

1) ALL ST (1-4) and TT1-4 classes will use the Avg. HP calculation for Dyno tech inspections for compliance with the Adjusted Wt/HP Ratio.

2) ST4/TT4 will use the current ST Adjusted Wt/HP Ratio Formula with some modifications to the Mod Factors (like we did with ST3/TT3)

3) ST4/TT4 will have a limit of 12:1 Adjusted Wt/HP Ratio

4) ST4/TT4 will have a maximum Tire Size of 275

5) Non-DOT tires will not be permitted in ST4/TT4 (might need some exceptions for designated rain events--still being worked out)

6) DOT-approved "A" Tires will have a Modification Factor in ST4/TT4--similar to the current non-DOT Mod Factor in other ST classes.

7) No non-Production Vehicles or Modification Factor for ST4/TT4, except for pre-approved vehicles (such as Legends, Legacy's, etc.) that shall be listed in the rules. There may be some individual waivers granted by the National Director under appropriate circumstances for currently unforeseen circumstances (with appropriate Mod Factor if necessary).

8) PTB/TTB will be deleted and no longer available.

9) Aero modifications will be limited to a rear wing/spoiler, front air dam/splitter, and those modifications currently listed as okay under the OEM Aero rule in ST3.

-------------

Less certain:

 

10) Deletion of the OEM Aero rule in ST3 (versus addition of the OEM Aero rule for ST4)

11) The exact Mod Factor changes for ST4 (versus ST3):

11a) Possible change for sequentials/dog ring/straight cut from -0.6 to -1.0

11b) Possible new Modification Factor for windshield removal (since Non-Production not available) for ST4/TT4

11c) FWD Mod Factor changed to +0.6 (from +1.0) for ST4/TT4

11d) Deletion of all four Engine Mod Factors for ST4/TT4

11e) "A" Tire Mod Factor -0.5 for ST4/TT4

12) Deletion of Rear Engine Mod Factors for ST1-3

13) Change the limit on Adjusted Wt/HP Ratio for PTC/TTC to 14.5:1, using the ST Formula (instead of the PT Formula) and using Avg HP, but continue to use the points system for 2017 as the primary method of classing for '17.

14) Increase the current Adjusted Wt/HP Ratio for PTD/TTD to 15:1 and PTE/TTE to 17:1, using the PT Adjusted WT/HP Ratio Formula (fix a few outliers)

 

I'm going to copy this to a new thread, and leave it open for constructive comments while we work through this, and lock this thread.

 

 

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