944-Spec#94 Posted November 20, 2003 Author Share Posted November 20, 2003 I had been running the Mobil 1 and changing after every couple events. I'd also keep the oil at the full mark or slightly over for each session. Nice thing is that my motor does not burn oil or have any leaks so the oil level stays pretty constant. It is a good idea to check the oil level before each track session. It is quick and easy to do and while it may not be 100% effective it really can't hurt in anyway so why not. I will have Amsoil in the car this weekend. Lets see how it works out. I have not figured out my Amsoil oil change plans however (after every event, 2 or 3 events?) BTW Paul will have Redline. One thing I have found in all of my rod-bearing searching is that 1) Oil level is important Keep it high to give the car best chance of always getting oil. Do not over fill by a quart since this may make oil windage worse, but also dont run medium or low levels. It is very easy to check so its worth it 2) Oil quality is important. The ability of the oil to mantain viscosity at temp is very important to protecing the bearings. In road care is not a big deal, but in motors that see racing stress it is important that oil not give up. The fact that Mobil 1 losses oil pressue on track seems to ME to occur because the oil has less viscosity at racing temps. So i'd GUESS that if an oil held pressure at temp better it is also holding viscosity better. 3) Keep RPM's to 6k. These engines don't make any more power over 6k so there is not reason to routinely go above 6k. Shift at 6k to 6200 and you probably help the engine. The occasional 7k whoops probably won't do much, but don't push it hard than you need. So those are 3 things that SHOULD help and are legal and relativly easy to implement. I see no reason why every 944-spec driver can't follow them. They may not prevent all rod bearing failures, but I can't see how they would be bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David J Marguglio Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 The only question I have after that explaination, Joe, is why would Porsche run all of their race cars Cup, RS, DP, exclusively on Mobil 1? I mean, I am not tied to them, (outside of their huge sponsorship of my car ) but PMS could run anything in their cars and dont think they are beholden to Mobil. What do you guys think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-Spec#94 Posted November 21, 2003 Author Share Posted November 21, 2003 Word on the Rennlist is that Mobil 1 is great for street cars and the race formulation that the teams use is good. We can't get the race stuff. I am not sure what PMNA recomends or uses in the GT3 Cups that run Grand-Am or what Alex Job and the other use. Do the guys at Mind-Over- motorsports have and clues as they did run some pro races in the Rosser Car. I'd guess they have some connections to PMNA running GT3RS? Plus Exxon-Mobil is much larger company and has a much larger ad budget than redline or amsoil. This weekend is a test with a few of use that had been running off the shelf mobil 1. We have been seeing oil pressure down around 3 bar at 6000rpm during a race. Supposedly Amsoil and Redline keep 4+ bar under the same conditions. We shall find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Bloomberg Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Guys, I ran 3 - 30 minute sessions today trying to break in some new tires..... and the results according to my oil pressure gauge looked about the same as with M1. Cold- 5 bar idle or full throttle end of session 2.5-3 bars at idle 4 bar on throttle Maybe Aimsoil will prove better....... Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgrow Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Maybe it has to do with oil pump capabilities??? When I was a 993 guy, everyone used M1. But there was a surprising 944/928 aversion to it on Rennlist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec-944#70 Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Could the aversion to synth oil on older motors be that if the car was run on regular oil for years and you change to synth oil as it's molecularly smaller it finds every possible place to exit? Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Comeau Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Guys, I keep my oil level high. That gives more oil to lube and more to rob heat. I'll start checking it before each session. I shift BEFORE 6,000 rpm. The beauty of synthetic oil is that it doesn't change viscosity with temp, or so they claim. Porsche would not risk using inferior oil in their cars. I'm sure Mobil 1 is fine. Keep in mind that people on RENNLIST, while trying to be helpful, aren't always the best informed/educated on the matters at hand. Take their info with a grain of salt. Listen to the mechanics who've seen multiple failures and have years of experience. I'm going to buy an oil cooler. This will keep oil temps down and add to the oil capacity of the engine. Has anyone installed an oil temp gauge? The stock temp gauge shows water temp, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p928sfan Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 I just had a sender put in my car by Cervelli, but the gauge wasn't in for todays race. However, with AMSOIL today, I never saw the pressure go below 4, and believe me, I was watching it. I will have the gauge wired in before the Dec 6 event. Todays event wouldn't have been a good temp indicator anyway, as it was pretty cold and windy all day. My water temp didn't even make it to the first line during the sprint race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spec944_01 Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 One more data point... I also run my oil level high, about 0.25" above the last mark on the dip stick. I check the oil level after every outing. I have observed that the oil level does not change when I don't push the car (I shift before 6K RPM and minimize on downshifts that cause the motor to wind above 6K). If I drive aggressively, while keeping the upshifts <6K, but not on the downshifts (some >6K), then oil level drops to the middle line after the session. I would expect oil starvation if I go out 2-3 times and drive hard without maintaining the high oil level. The lateral g-forces might also have something to do with this, as during "aggressive" driving, the cornering forces are a bit higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Comeau Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Norik, Why would your downshifts exceed 6K rpm? Are you downshifting too early? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-Spec#94 Posted November 24, 2003 Author Share Posted November 24, 2003 Guys, I ran Amsoil this weekend in the ASRA Event Saturday. In spite of cool temps my car ran warm saturday morning two sessions(last white line on early temp gauge). I was having t-stat problmes. Oil pressure stayed at 3.8 bar constant for 20 min. I noticed a few leaks that I did not have before. I looks like the Amsoil found these leaks that Mobil 1 did not. I added 1/2 quart to ensure I was topped off. For the 40 min race sat I pulled the T-stat. Car ran nice and cool and oil was at 4-bar the entire 40 min race. Paul and I ran hard for 40 min both setting personal best laps in low 1:54 range. Sunday's Endro for 2 hrs the oil pressure stayed 4 bar for entire race. Afer 1 hr 15 min I pulled in for pit. Added gas and 1/2 quart of oil to keep it topped off. Car ran flawlessly. Steve and Dan ran in the 09 car. They also ran Amsoil and noticed strong oil pressure all weekend. They forgot to add oil in their pit stop. End of the race they were at the Mid-mark on the dip stick, but had no issues. 1) Amsoil Holds pressure better than Mobil 1. (Used to get to 3 bar on M1) 2) Amsoil finds leaks bette than mobil 1 and/or burn off more. - Check oil level more often 3) Amsoil feels "more greasy" than Mobil 1. Comments from my father a retired Mercedes-Benz technician for over 30 years. I will stick with it inspite of the extra cost over Mobil 1 BTW... Paul was running street redline vs racing redline. He chose not to run the enduro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-spec#09 Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Guys We also ran Amsol this past weekend and I agree with everything Joe said. We had oil pressures that stayed above 4 bar throughout the weekend, even after long sessions. Even more important (and worse than Joe's comments), during the 2 hr enduro, we started with slightly above full oil levels and, as the car seems to have a small oil leak, had been adding about a cup for 40 min of racing. In our excitement at the pit stop during the 2 hr enduro, we neglected to check the oil level. When we finished the race, to my horror, it was actually BELOW the bottom mark (about twice the consumption expected - Amsol seems to find more ways to leak - maybe due to the higher pressure?). However, there is no engine bearing noise, oil pressure is still fine (I drove it home 30 miles after the event) and I will check for metal fragments on the oil plug this week. I am planning on a bearing replacement pretty soon (and to find that #$%@* oil leak)! Also, the bearings probably got wet (although not run that way) when we had the gasket failure last spring. So, while I already think the oil is better, if the #2 bearing look good at the change I will be a permanent convert. Thanks Joe for selling me the oil! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-spec#09 Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Reopening this thread: I have now run several more track days since running the ASRA 2hr enduro accidentally letting the oil get below the lower mark. Although I still have a main crank oil seal leak (apparently one of a batch of bad seals that came mostly in the full gasket sets), the oil pressure has stayed above 60 psi and the engine is running very strong. I will get the leak fixed next week and will do the bearings soon but do not expect to see any damage. I am sure that if I had done this with Mobil one I would have toasted number 2. Amsoil is the way to go as far as I am concerned as I believe it has saved me from a major failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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