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aaronsti

can an 05-07 sti be competitive in tt4?

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aaronsti

pretty much what the question says. can it be a competitive platform, or will it always lag behind m3, evo, vette, and s2000?

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brkntrxn

Anything can be competitive in xT# classes. Especially TT.

 

I am half tempted to build another Mustang just to prove it since everyone says the Corvette is the "almighty bestus". Yes, the BMWs and Vettes are great platforms to begin with, but anything can be built to beat anything else. Especially in a one-lap-wonder format.

 

 

-Kevin

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aaronsti

I guess I should also add dollar to dollar. Because I guess I know it can be competitive but does it take $$$$$$$$$ for one chassis and $$ for another to be as competitive

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SNAKBITN

I'm with ya Kevin.I been thinking seriously about that very same thing.The s197 built to the edge of the rules I think would kick some serious a$$. After seeing how close the SI times are against the top st4 and tt4 cars are I think would surprise a lot of vettes and bimmers! The car would not be SI legal anymore though.That's the only thing holding me back right now.

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dbrad
Anything can be competitive in xT# classes. Especially TT.

 

I am half tempted to build another Mustang just to prove it since everyone says the Corvette is the "almighty bestus". Yes, the BMWs and Vettes are great platforms to begin with, but anything can be built to beat anything else. Especially in a one-lap-wonder format.

 

 

-Kevin

I'm with ya Kevin.I been thinking seriously about that very same thing.The s197 built to the edge of the rules I think would kick some serious a$$. After seeing how close the SI times are against the top st4 and tt4 cars are I think would surprise a lot of vettes and bimmers! The car would not be SI legal anymore though.That's the only thing holding me back right now.

 

I know of a S197 in race trim not being used anytime soon. If interested in converting into a killer ST/TT4 car, I say let's make it happen!

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brkntrxn
Anything can be competitive in xT# classes. Especially TT.

 

I am half tempted to build another Mustang just to prove it since everyone says the Corvette is the "almighty bestus". Yes, the BMWs and Vettes are great platforms to begin with, but anything can be built to beat anything else. Especially in a one-lap-wonder format.

 

 

-Kevin

I'm with ya Kevin.I been thinking seriously about that very same thing.The s197 built to the edge of the rules I think would kick some serious a$$. After seeing how close the SI times are against the top st4 and tt4 cars are I think would surprise a lot of vettes and bimmers! The car would not be SI legal anymore though.That's the only thing holding me back right now.

 

I know of a S197 in race trim not being used anytime soon. If interested in converting into a killer ST/TT4 car, I say let's make it happen!

 

 

I already sent you a parts list so I can spend your money.

 

 

Back to the OP:

 

Every chassis has advantages and disadvantages. The Vettes and BMWs have higher price tags to start with PLUS you pay the luxury tax on a lot of parts just because of the name of the car. Mustangs are cheaper to get into but don't quite have the platform or stock drag coefficients. Subies are somewhere in between in my opinion AND have that thing called all wheel drive.

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aaronsti
Anything can be competitive in xT# classes. Especially TT.

 

I am half tempted to build another Mustang just to prove it since everyone says the Corvette is the "almighty bestus". Yes, the BMWs and Vettes are great platforms to begin with, but anything can be built to beat anything else. Especially in a one-lap-wonder format.

 

 

-Kevin

I'm with ya Kevin.I been thinking seriously about that very same thing.The s197 built to the edge of the rules I think would kick some serious a$$. After seeing how close the SI times are against the top st4 and tt4 cars are I think would surprise a lot of vettes and bimmers! The car would not be SI legal anymore though.That's the only thing holding me back right now.

 

I know of a S197 in race trim not being used anytime soon. If interested in converting into a killer ST/TT4 car, I say let's make it happen!

 

 

I already sent you a parts list so I can spend your money.

 

 

Back to the OP:

 

Every chassis has advantages and disadvantages. The Vettes and BMWs have higher price tags to start with PLUS you pay the luxury tax on a lot of parts just because of the name of the car. Mustangs are cheaper to get into but don't quite have the platform or stock drag coefficients. Subies are somewhere in between in my opinion AND have that thing called all wheel drive.

 

 

You're saying AWD is an advantage correct?

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brkntrxn

 

 

You're saying AWD is an advantage correct?

 

 

Yes I am, but I will quantify that with the usual "it depends".

 

From my experience, AWD has an advantage on any track that has a lot of tight corners or sweepers with low grip. (FWD is also similar to AWD, in my opinion) RWD is going to have an advantage on tracks with less tight corners or tracks with plenty of grip. I will give some examples:

 

Carolina Motorsports Park: Crappy tar and gravel surface, 3 corners tighter than 90*, 2 corners that are right hand sweepers with very little grip. AWD has an advantage at this track. When I exit the three tight corners in my Vette, I have to wait/wait/wait for the car to straighten out before going WOT. On the sweepers with low grip, I have to pedal the throttle through the entire corner before going WOT. An AWD, and a FWD, should be able to go to WOT before I can in any of those corners. Equal prep car to equal prep car. Can an AWD on NT01s outcorner my RWD Vette on A7s? No way. So keep in mind I am saying EQUAL car prep.

 

VIR: Good track surface, plenty of mix of high speed corners and low speed tight corners. AWD should have an advantage out of nOak Tree and maybe the T1-2 sweeper, but not necessarily anywhere else over my RWD Vette. Equal prep to equal prep, the cars should be very close at this track. With maybe a nod to the RWD car because less weight from no AWD penalty should translate to later braking into T1 and T14. In theory.

 

 

Make sense?

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aaronsti

 

 

You're saying AWD is an advantage correct?

 

 

Yes I am, but I will quantify that with the usual "it depends".

 

From my experience, AWD has an advantage on any track that has a lot of tight corners or sweepers with low grip. (FWD is also similar to AWD, in my opinion) RWD is going to have an advantage on tracks with less tight corners or tracks with plenty of grip. I will give some examples:

 

Carolina Motorsports Park: Crappy tar and gravel surface, 3 corners tighter than 90*, 2 corners that are right hand sweepers with very little grip. AWD has an advantage at this track. When I exit the three tight corners in my Vette, I have to wait/wait/wait for the car to straighten out before going WOT. On the sweepers with low grip, I have to pedal the throttle through the entire corner before going WOT. An AWD, and a FWD, should be able to go to WOT before I can in any of those corners. Equal prep car to equal prep car. Can an AWD on NT01s outcorner my RWD Vette on A7s? No way. So keep in mind I am saying EQUAL car prep.

 

VIR: Good track surface, plenty of mix of high speed corners and low speed tight corners. AWD should have an advantage out of nOak Tree and maybe the T1-2 sweeper, but not necessarily anywhere else over my RWD Vette. Equal prep to equal prep, the cars should be very close at this track. With maybe a nod to the RWD car because less weight from no AWD penalty should translate to later braking into T1 and T14. In theory.

 

 

Make sense?

 

Yep, I get it.

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aaronsti

 

 

You're saying AWD is an advantage correct?

 

 

Yes I am, but I will quantify that with the usual "it depends".

 

From my experience, AWD has an advantage on any track that has a lot of tight corners or sweepers with low grip. (FWD is also similar to AWD, in my opinion) RWD is going to have an advantage on tracks with less tight corners or tracks with plenty of grip. I will give some examples:

 

Carolina Motorsports Park: Crappy tar and gravel surface, 3 corners tighter than 90*, 2 corners that are right hand sweepers with very little grip. AWD has an advantage at this track. When I exit the three tight corners in my Vette, I have to wait/wait/wait for the car to straighten out before going WOT. On the sweepers with low grip, I have to pedal the throttle through the entire corner before going WOT. An AWD, and a FWD, should be able to go to WOT before I can in any of those corners. Equal prep car to equal prep car. Can an AWD on NT01s outcorner my RWD Vette on A7s? No way. So keep in mind I am saying EQUAL car prep.

 

VIR: Good track surface, plenty of mix of high speed corners and low speed tight corners. AWD should have an advantage out of nOak Tree and maybe the T1-2 sweeper, but not necessarily anywhere else over my RWD Vette. Equal prep to equal prep, the cars should be very close at this track. With maybe a nod to the RWD car because less weight from no AWD penalty should translate to later braking into T1 and T14. In theory.

 

 

Make sense?

 

So here's another food for thought question for you. With your statement of fwd is similar to awd, is any awd platform with the -.5 more of a handicap than its worth. Are you better off with the more even weight distribution of rwd or the +.6 of fwd?

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brkntrxn
So here's another food for thought question for you. With your statement of fwd is similar to awd, is any awd platform with the -.5 more of a handicap than its worth. Are you better off with the more even weight distribution of rwd or the +.6 of fwd?

 

 

I think that comes down to the "warts" of the individual platform, the trade-offs associated, the desire to become an expert on that platform, and the driving style of the racer.

 

For me, I have raced FWD 4 bangers, 6cyl RWD, 6Cyl AWD, V8 RWD, etc. Balanced and unbalanced. Smart (eg C7Z06 and GTR) and non-smart (eg Pickup and Escort). My driving style and my maintenance budget prefer a not-so-smart single cam RWD V8. Therefore, a Corvette C5Z06 with the traction control turned off but ABS still enabled suits my needs perfectly. Cheap-ish to maintain and modify, still plenty fast, lots of aftermarket support, and suits my driving style with my right foot. If I had the money to maintain it, I'd be all over a carbon-paneled, heavily modified ST2 Nissan GTR that is on the market right now. If I were starting all over, I would be very interested in Spec Iron or Honda Challenge. Two completely different platforms, but both equally fun in their own right. I am always amazed at the fast lap times the Honda Challenge guys turn for $15-20k. Not far off of ST3 lap times at a lot of tracks. But I have also watched a number of my friends chase halfshaft issues in their Integras and whatnot.

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daytonars4

The AWD penalty in TT4 is more of a handicap than it's worth at my local tracks (VIR/Dominion/Summit). In similarly prepped cars, I can put down 1-2 second faster laps in my e36 M3 than my Audi B8 A5. And the other AWD cars I've seen in TT4 so far are a couple seconds off an e36 as well. Most of the TT4 cars are in the 230-270whp range and traction at that level just doesn't seem like much of a problem on hoosiers.

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aaronsti
The AWD penalty in TT4 is more of a handicap than it's worth at my local tracks (VIR/Dominion/Summit). In similarly prepped cars, I can put down 1-2 second faster laps in my e36 M3 than my Audi B8 A5. And the other AWD cars I've seen in TT4 so far are a couple seconds off an e36 as well. Most of the TT4 cars are in the 230-270whp range and traction at that level just doesn't seem like much of a problem on hoosiers.

 

i don't know if its that i'm biased (which i probably am) it seems like an awfully big handicap for the little if any advantage. but the top tt4 guys in my region(northeast) run evo's, soooo.....?

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aaronsti

i guess the point of this thread for me is to figure out if its worth building my sti to the rules and will it be competitive or should i sell the sti and get something else if i want to be competitive. i think once you get to tt3 the answer becomes more clear that it won't be as competitive, especially as far as making cheap reliable power.

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427R

All good points and ideas made. Maybe...run what you have and see how you and the car do? Sometimes moving up we feel we can't be as competitive as we need to be and find out afterwards, we did ok. Few more tweaks here and there and we're even better yet.

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aaronsti

i'm far away, running no aero. not willing to do the expense and low life of hoosiers yet so running bfg r1 because i know even with hoosiers i wouldn't be competitive, and some various things that add up. looking at about 6500 to make the car competitive.

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daytonars4

It's hard to use 1 region as a guide. But since that's where you are racing and AWD cars do fine there, then it may be fine for you. But just for reference, the top TT4 NE driver came to VIR earlier this year and ran 2:08 which is now the TT4 record. On the same weekend GTS2 e36's were running 2:07's and they are 30-40whp below what's allowed for TT4/ST4 power to weight ......

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