rlipner Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 1. The proposed addition or change. Proposal to have the series transition from German mark only series to a European/UK HQ based mark series. This would be based on where the manufacturing and design business is primarily located. For example: Tata (Indian based company) owns Jaguar but the manufacturing and design is primarily based in the U.K. Same example applies to Volvo and their Chinese holding company. 2. The reason behind the proposal Globalization has diluted where many German cars are produced. Many Audis are produced in Hungary, BMWs in South Carolina etc. It's a misnomer to think that many of the cars we drive in GTS are not partially manuafactured elsewhere throughout the European Union. Also, the series does itself a disservice by not including marks from other European countries and the UK. Aston Martin, Volvo, Jaguar, Alfa, and yes, even Ferraris would add a new and I believe an exciting dimension to the series. 3. Any documentation supporting the request I'd refer you to any German manufacture's listing of manufacturing and assembly plants, not to mention the window sticker indicating the content origin. 4. Proposals to be submitted and signed by GTS members to be considered. (indicate Class and Region, please). Roy Lipner. Great Lakes. GTS 3/4 Thank you, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dizzy8085 Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 I wish ST and GTS would combine. More competition would be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
focusedintntions Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 I support this. As long as it's a "european" brand that's being added. Otherwise it's a slippery slope of "my japanese branded car was built in X country, but others weren't" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Michael G. Posted September 14, 2017 Members Share Posted September 14, 2017 I wish ST and GTS would combine. More competition would be fun. Dizzy8085, ST and GTS has different rule sets, different ratios, points for mods, etc. Merging would mean sacrificing either one of two rule sets. When you say "combine" - how do you see it? GTS is coming over to ST and playing by ST rules or vise versa? Do you see ST coming to GTS to play by our rules? Michael G GTS Nat Dir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt@NCM Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 I wish ST and GTS would combine. More competition would be fun. This. Cycle the GTS folks into the ST ruleset and stop watering down car counts across classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Michael G. Posted September 14, 2017 Members Share Posted September 14, 2017 This. Cycle the GTS folks into the ST ruleset and stop watering down car counts across classes. Matt@NCM, What about allowing European marquees from ST to join GTS, with more open rule set, no aero restrictions and penalties for tire size? In many Regions GTS is doing better than ST. Again, those are two different classes with different philosophies behind. Would ST accept no contact 13/13 or wider space for passing? I don't think it is a matter of cycling anyone - drivers should have a choice. As of now, there is nothing that stops GTS drivers to join ST if they wish so. That should be the indication how much desire is there from the GTS drivers to join ST. Michael G. GTS Nat. Dir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackhaberman Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 I support this proposal described in the original post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emag Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 I support the original (European marques in GTS) proposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt@NCM Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 This. Cycle the GTS folks into the ST ruleset and stop watering down car counts across classes. Matt@NCM, What about allowing European marquees from ST to join GTS, with more open rule set, no aero restrictions and penalties for tire size? In many Regions GTS is doing better than ST. Again, those are two different classes with different philosophies behind. Would ST accept no contact 13/13 or wider space for passing? I don't think it is a matter of cycling anyone - drivers should have a choice. As of now, there is nothing that stops GTS drivers to join ST if they wish so. That should be the indication how much desire is there from the GTS drivers to join ST. Michael G. GTS Nat. Dir. Michael, I think the formula you lay out there would more than likely be successful for GTS (or ETS ), but if the ST formula isn't working, and the GTS is, why not do it vise versa? Adopting the GTS rules into ST? Ultimately Ive never been a big fan of aportioning the already small club racing customer base. Car counts breed more car counts, and racing will always have an ebb and flow of participation, but personally Id like to see more of a strategy to compress as much as possible. IE Spec focus into PTE, Spec3 into ST5, etc etc etc. GTS (like a few classes) seems to be popular in some parts of the country, and not so popular in others. Whereas the new ST-4 and the current PTE classes seem to be hitting a sweet spot for new and existing racers across most regions, so how do we create more of these type formulas in the faster classes to perhaps make the ETS folks want to supersize to ST, or just have one class with 15-20 cars in it? May be idealistic, I certainly don't deal with the nuts and bolts of it often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Michael G. Posted September 19, 2017 Members Share Posted September 19, 2017 Matt@NCM, I appreciate the sentiment and have nothing against it, aside of the fact that as GTS leaders we are not in a position to suggest for ST to drop their rule set. Both classes, even though both HP/weight, were created with different philosophies behind. It is not a question who is right or wrong, better or worse, just different. The vast majority of GTS drivers are standing behind an open Rules format with minimal restrictions and ST drivers seems prefer the balancing of performance through points for mods. I believe there are merits for both systems and drivers can choose what they prefer. If the Euro expansion will take place and will trigger higher car counts for GTS, that might be a good indicator for the direction in the future. Michael G. GTS Nat. Dir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdonaldsracing Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Hell no! The ST rules are fine. Don't you dare talk about screwing up ST now with the recent GTS changes of the last couple years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doclouns Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Im good with this proposal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Michael G. Posted September 19, 2017 Members Share Posted September 19, 2017 Hell no! The ST rules are fine. Don't you dare talk about screwing up ST now with the recent GTS changes of the last couple years! John, I doubt you actually read my reply. What I said - GTS has no say on ST Rules and vise versa. Some folks prefer ST and some GTS for number of different reasons. And yes, you are right, ST Rules are fine, just different. Michael G. GTS Nat Dir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdonaldsracing Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 I did Michael, we were just typing at the same time so yours wasn't up when I started mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Michael G. Posted September 19, 2017 Members Share Posted September 19, 2017 John, Sorry, my bad. Michael. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdonaldsracing Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 No worries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmccoy Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 I would love to see GTS become purely weight/power, with modifiers for tires (slicks) and possibly gearboxes. At that point, country of origin, could easily be open. Opening up motor swaps could also add a fun dynamic. I think the concern would be the influx of cars into given classes (much easier if it is purely weight/power) and who that might upset in the current given class. Overall though, it would be a good way to grow the series by opening up to a larger group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate.Vincent Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 I support this rule change. While FCPEuro doesn't currently compete in GTS we have built a Mercedes Benz C300 for AER and are considering bringing it out for GTS. We have also considered building other "quirky" marks such as Volvo. If GTS was open to all European marks this would make building interesting and different cars more appealing and allow them to race places aside from AER. Also EEuro races a Saab. These cars need places to race aside from endurance series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjkasten Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 I"m in favor of opening up GTS to Euro cars. I'm not sure how big of an impact it will have on actual car counts, but I see no downside to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_Wolfe Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 I agree with Proposal to have the series transition from German mark only series to a European/UK HQ based mark series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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