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Greg G.

NASA 2018 ST1-4 & SU Rules Released 11-29-17

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Greg G.

11/29/2017—NASA 2018 Super Touring 1-4 and Super Unlimited Rules Released!

 

The 2018 version of the NASA Super Touring 1-4 & Super Unlimited Rules will be posted in the next few hours on the NASA Rules page. https://www.nasaproracing.com/rules

 

As in past years, NASA Time Trial classing will mirror classing of the Super Touring and Performance Touring series, so TT drivers can use these rules for purposes of 2018 TT classing as well.

 

There have been some changes made in the annual revision process, and they are noted by the blue text. Competitors may notice that the actual font and formatting of the rules has been improved for easier reading. The big change for the series is the addition of the ST5 class, but with the disparity between the rules for the new ST5 class and the ST1-ST4 classes, it was decided to separate those rules into an entirely different rules file.

 

One of the changes to the ST1-4 rules, brought about by driver input over the season, is rule 6.2.1.1h that allows for reinforcement of suspension mounting locations for strengthening purposes only. Another is that NASA has developed its own method of measuring tire width, called the NASA Section Width measurement, along with measurement tools that will be available in every region and templates for those tools in a .pdf file on the NASA Rules page. The NASA Section Width measurement will take the place of previous rules regarding tire size, with a transition period for ST1-4, but immediately for the new ST5 class. NASA will notify competitors via a Technical Bulletin when the transition will be completed, but it is anticipated in less than 6 months. This measurement will even out some of the tire width issues we have seen over the year in part due to wheel sizing, without having to actually limit or measure wheels. There is a minor change in the Modification Factor for the 245 size or smaller (NASA Section Width 266mm or smaller) from +0.7 to +0.6, and we have added a Modification Factor for UTQG Treadwear 200 or greater tires in all classes.

 

The only other major change is the method of calculating the Average Horsepower (Avg HP). While a little more complicated, it should provide a better approximation of the horsepower available over a range of usable RPM. As in the past, if a competitor does not want to do any of these calculations, the Maximum Horsepower can always be used to calculate the Adjusted Wt/HP Ratio instead! The improved method has more data points to be evaluated with a switch from looking at the HP in 500 rpm increments to 250 rpm increments. As well, the number of data points used for the actual calculation will depend on the engine’s rpm redline. Larger, lower revving engines will use less data points, and the smaller engines that rev higher will use more data points giving them a measurement of a wider rpm power band.

 

Have a great 2018 season, and we will see you at COTA in September for the once again unified NASA National Championships!

 

Greg Greenbaum, M.D.

NASA National ST/PT/TT Director

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Greg G.

The rules are posted.

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JonB

Thanks for posting. Knowing that the Hoosier 245 is the most popular tire and size used in ST4, curious what measurements NASA has taken/recorded with various popular wheel sizes such as a 9" or 9.5" inch rim. In other words, would the expectation be that the 266mm/10.4in max section width only be possible using a 8.5 inch rim with the 245 Hoosier? Doing a quick check even with a 9" rim, it looks like 266mm is going to be tough using the Hoosier 245.

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Greg G.
Thanks for posting. Knowing that the Hoosier 245 is the most popular tire and size used in ST4, curious what measurements NASA has taken/recorded with various popular wheel sizes such as a 9" or 9.5" inch rim. In other words, would the expectation be that the 266mm/10.4in max section width only be possible using a 8.5 inch rim with the 245 Hoosier? Doing a quick check even with a 9" rim, it looks like 266mm is going to be tough using the Hoosier 245.

Our research showed that the 9" rim puts the tire at about 264mm, and definitely fits. We didn't have a 9.5" wheel for testing, but it certainly might fit as well. We would not expect a 10" to allow the tire to fit, but that is past the manufacturer's recommended size as well. The choice for 266mm NSW and not higher was that it was approaching the 275 tire size NSW.

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Balroks

Do you have the base testing data available for those popular ones? Like 275 hoosier on 9.5 or 10 and bfg's on 9.5 or 10, etc? As in you know already what combos for sure aren't going to cut the mustard.

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DanielsDM

When will the Nasa Section Width gage specs be available?

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KY2K20

What size tire, in regards to diameter, was being tested above? The Hoosier R7 has a 10" section width in a 15" diameter but it is 10.3" in 17" diameter.

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Rob S.

Thank you for all the hard work!

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Greg G.

Do you have the base testing data available for those popular ones? Like 275 hoosier on 9.5 or 10 and bfg's on 9.5 or 10, etc? As in you know already what combos for sure aren't going to cut the mustard.

Hoosier 275 (both 17 and 18's) should fit the 282mm tool on 10" wheels. Not sure about the BFG's


The 255 x 18 will not.


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Greg G.
When will the Nasa Section Width gage specs be available?

The specs are in the rules. The templates were supposed to be posted yesterday, but IT is at the 25 Hour, so it might be delayed. I'll see if they can get them up today, though.

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Greg G.
What size tire, in regards to diameter, was being tested above? The Hoosier R7 has a 10" section width in a 15" diameter but it is 10.3" in 17" diameter.

245's were tested on 17's. 275's were tested on 17's and 18's. 205's and 225's were tested on 15's. 235's and 255's were tested on 17's, except the H 255 x 18.

Of course, we can't test every tire on every wheel, but we think we have a good formula for our most commonly used tires. The bottom line is that what matters is what the measurement is on each competitors wheel/tire choice, though.

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magnetic1
Do you have the base testing data available for those popular ones? Like 275 hoosier on 9.5 or 10 and bfg's on 9.5 or 10, etc? As in you know already what combos for sure aren't going to cut the mustard.

 

Vernon McClure did some measuring last night on 275s from BFG and Hoosier.

 

Both appear to work ok on a 9.5" wheel. On a 10" wheel BFGs are above 288mm, unsure on Hoosier.

 

-Eric Wong

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esr

Greg,

any chance to let cars 3000-3250 lbs used the bigger tire with a points penalty?

lets say give it zero points! Instead of the +0.3

I think this would give more flexibility for different models to run and not end up in no mans land. Plus would promote closer racing all around the track.

 

Thank you

Rafael

03 350z

 

 

What size tire, in regards to diameter, was being tested above? The Hoosier R7 has a 10" section width in a 15" diameter but it is 10.3" in 17" diameter.

245's were tested on 17's. 275's were tested on 17's and 18's. 205's and 225's were tested on 15's. 235's and 255's were tested on 17's, except the H 255 x 18.

Of course, we can't test every tire on every wheel, but we think we have a good formula for our most commonly used tires. The bottom line is that what matters is what the measurement is on each competitors wheel/tire choice, though.

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Balroks

When measuring a hoosier for example, and you're "excluding" the rather large rib they have, are you just squeezing it down or cutting a small piece out for said tool to "slide" ?

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427R

Guess I'm not understanding the NASA Section Width fully. At what point does the NASA Section Width Rule/Tool come into play? 6.1.4 says, Tire and wheels size is unlimited for ST1, 2, 3. 6.5.2 says, NASA Section Width 267mm to 282mm (DOT- approved) Or any currently produced size 275, 245 or smaller = +0.3. I run the Hoosier R7's 275/35-18 on 9.5" wheels and take the +0.3 points. Do I need to have the NASA Section Width Rule/Tool applied or am I good with what rules 6.1.4 & 6.5.2 say?

 

6.1.4 Tire treatments and softeners are not permitted.

Tire and wheel size are unlimited in ST1, ST2, and ST3, but non-DOT

approved tires will be assessed via the “Adjusted Weight/Power Ratio”.

 

6.5.1 Definitions

4) “NASA Section Width” DOT tire width is determined by a measurement of the “NASA Section Width” of the largest tire (if staggered sizes) on the vehicle in post-competition impound/inspection, without changes to tire inflation (may be allowed to cool to pre-competition pressure). The tire may be measured while off or on the vehicle at any location not affected by ground contact sidewall deflection. A tire's NASA Section Width is the measurement of the tire's width from its inner sidewall to its outer sidewall using the NASA Section Width tire measurement tool(s) (excluding any protective ribs, decorations or raised letters) at the point 30mm deep to the tread surface on a new tire.

 

6.5.2 Modification Factors

Tire Size: NASA Section Width 266mm or smaller (DOT-approved)

Or any currently produced size 245 or smaller = +0.6

NASA Section Width 267mm to 282mm (DOT- approved)

Or any currently produced size 275, 245 or smaller = +0.3

Size 9.5” (241mm) or smaller (non-DOT approved) = +0.6

Size 10.5” (267mm) to 9.6” (244mm) (non-DOT approved) = +0.3

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Greg G.
Guess I'm not understanding the NASA Section Width fully. At what point does the NASA Section Width Rule/Tool come into play? 6.1.4 says, Tire and wheels size is unlimited for ST1, 2, 3. 6.5.2 says, NASA Section Width 267mm to 282mm (DOT- approved) Or any currently produced size 275, 245 or smaller = +0.3. I run the Hoosier R7's 275/35-18 on 9.5" wheels and take the +0.3 points. Do I need to have the NASA Section Width Rule/Tool applied or am I good with what rules 6.1.4 & 6.5.2 say?

 

6.1.4 Tire treatments and softeners are not permitted.

Tire and wheel size are unlimited in ST1, ST2, and ST3, but non-DOT

approved tires will be assessed via the “Adjusted Weight/Power Ratio”.

 

6.5.1 Definitions

4) “NASA Section Width” DOT tire width is determined by a measurement of the “NASA Section Width” of the largest tire (if staggered sizes) on the vehicle in post-competition impound/inspection, without changes to tire inflation (may be allowed to cool to pre-competition pressure). The tire may be measured while off or on the vehicle at any location not affected by ground contact sidewall deflection. A tire's NASA Section Width is the measurement of the tire's width from its inner sidewall to its outer sidewall using the NASA Section Width tire measurement tool(s) (excluding any protective ribs, decorations or raised letters) at the point 30mm deep to the tread surface on a new tire.

 

6.5.2 Modification Factors

Tire Size: NASA Section Width 266mm or smaller (DOT-approved)

Or any currently produced size 245 or smaller = +0.6

NASA Section Width 267mm to 282mm (DOT- approved)

Or any currently produced size 275, 245 or smaller = +0.3

Size 9.5” (241mm) or smaller (non-DOT approved) = +0.6

Size 10.5” (267mm) to 9.6” (244mm) (non-DOT approved) = +0.3

Since you drive in TT3, you are good to go at this time. And, if we end up deleting the tire sizes altogether in the next 6 months, and only use NASA Section Width to determine your tire Mod Factor (that's all it is for in your case in TT3, because you can choose any tire size you want), our research shows that your tire/wheel combination will have no problem fitting the 282mm size tool.

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427R

Thanks Greg.

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JCathers

Any reason why cars <3250 won't be allowed to run wider than 266mm with a power to weight penalty? Since we can't ballast up to 3250 quite a few of us are looking at either buying new wheels or new tires, which is a pretty big unexpected expense. It's just another barrier to entry for a class that had no TT participation at ECC this year.

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esr

Same here that rule will keep me from racing in ST4 next year with my 03 350z

I Just spent good $$ to get to 3050# and still under power

With some engine mods!

I have 3 new sets of 10 inch rims.

At this point the z is probably the wrong car so I am not buying new wheels just to see what goes down with this class plus pumping up my motor any more when this class should be a 12.0:1 class. Why do we give + points to something that is mandatory.

Cars up to 2900 should be on 245

Cars up to 3300 should be on 275

Cars over 3300 should be on even bigger tires

With no +points at 12.0:1 like the class states on the rules.

I will keep my car at 3050 With my 275s at real reliable 12.0:1 and and enter SU and have fun with whoever is out there.

Only cause I like the NASA bbq

 

quote="JCathers"]Any reason why cars <3250 won't be allowed to run wider than 266mm with a power to weight penalty? Since we can't ballast up to 3250 quite a few of us are looking at either buying new wheels or new tires, which is a pretty big unexpected expense. It's just another barrier to entry for a class that had no TT participation at ECC this year.[/quo

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Balroks
Same here that rule will keep me from racing in ST4 next year with my 03 350z

I Just spent good $$ to get to 3050# and still under power

With some engine mods!

I have 3 new sets of 10 inch rims.

At this point the z is probably the wrong car so I am not buying new wheels just to see what goes down with this class plus pumping up my motor any more when this class should be a 12.0:1 class. Why do we give + points to something that is mandatory.

Cars up to 2900 should be on 245

Cars up to 3300 should be on 275

Cars over 3300 should be on even bigger tires

With no +points at 12.0:1 like the class states on the rules.

I will keep my car at 3050 With my 275s at real reliable 12.0:1 and and enter SU and have fun with whoever is out there.

Only cause I like the NASA bbq

 

 

 

Firstly it would be hilarious for you go to up to all the Pcar owners and tell them they have to run 245's under those rear fenders, in rear engine heavy cars simply because they weigh that amount, and many more examples, so that won't fly. Secondly others are in the same boat as you where they tried maximizing the tires to the rules ragged edge and in some of those extremely fine tuned cases they've now tipped the scales. In a 10" case if your referring to BFG's you can always get the 265's and be perfectly legal on a 10"er (if, indeed, the tool don't fit but everyone for themselves there sounds like). And if you have 10 sets of the 275's you have 6 months to burn through em. Simple.

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JCathers

BFG doesn't have a time trials contingency.. these changes to TT4 really seem to be trying to force hoosiers out of TT instead of leveling the playing field with Toyo/BFG - pushing an american company that produces great tires with a great contingency program out of TT because their tires run wide...

Edited by Guest

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Greg G.

Stay tuned. I’m writing a technical bulletin tonight that’s going to switch that number from 3250 pounds to 3100 pounds.

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Pat533i

Yup conveniently just bought 18x10s on Black Friday.

 

The best part about this rule is that it does nothing to the cars in my region that blew everyone’s doors off last season. Heavyest cars, biggest tires, and most horsepower.

 

Let the cars under 3250 take no mod points to run a 282mm.

 

Not sure how to burn through tires during the winter in the north east.

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Pat533i
Stay tuned. I’m writing a technical bulletin tonight that’s going to switch that number from 3250 pounds to 3100 pounds.

 

 

3100 sounds much better. Also it’s actually achievable in my car.

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