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ricardofors

4pt harness passing tech with stock seats

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ricardofors

That's why you are up there and I'm down here. Thank you. Kinda cleared it. Restraints have the necessary certifications but it may not have the right configuration? One section seems to allow it, another says it no good? Oh well, I guess just roll with the factory seatbelt.

Thank you for the info

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427R
Oh well, I guess just roll with the factory seatbelt.

If you stick with the seatbelts, look into a device called CG-LOCK. Works good. I used it till I was ready for a 5-pt harness (much better than a 4 pt) and race seat.

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cadmad

I'm pretty dang sure Four point harnesses are not permitted as per the CCR. There has been instances of drivers being partially ejected from the seat in a roll over. Safety first, get the safest seat and harness system you can afford. You're not replaceable everything else is. You'll have better control driving not having to brace yourself while braking and cornering.

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Ev
I'm pretty dang sure Four point harnesses are not permitted as per the CCR. There has been instances of drivers being partially ejected from the seat in a roll over. Safety first, get the safest seat and harness system you can afford. You're not replaceable everything else is. You'll have better control driving not having to brace yourself while braking and cornering.

They are allowed, if they are the correct specification if I'm reading 11.3.2 correctly.

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cadmad

even the part that states "AND that the seat belts were designed for the specific vehicle"?

the quickfit claims it works on your model car not that it was designed for your car.

Let's try this again...

there has been incidence's where a drivers were partially ejected from the vehicle in a roll over.

it doesn't end well.

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Ev
even the part that states "AND that the seat belts were designed for the specific vehicle"?

the quickfit claims it works on your model car not that it was designed for your car.

Not sure what you're seeing, but here is the rule.

 

11.3 Required Safety Equipment - Driver

Disclaimer: Conformance to these regulations is the driver’s responsibility. These regulations do not guarantee

or imply that injuries or death will not occur. If there are any questions or problems with these regulations it is

the reader’s responsibility to contact the NASA office, or a NASA official immediately.

All participants shall utilize equipment that meets or exceeds these minimum requirements, while driving on

track (Note- passenger equipment must meet or exceed these minimum requirements; but do not necessarily

have to match the driver’s equipment):

1. Use a proper fitting helmet that meets Snell 1995 2000 (SA1995SA2000; M1995M2000) or newer (or

equivalent) standards for cars or motorcycles.

2. The driver and any passenger must utilize modern style stock seatbelts in very good condition, or a DOT

approved restraint system, while operating a vehicle on the track. Lap belts used without any shoulder

restraints are not permitted. Restraint system requirements are listed in Section #11.4.8. The only

four-point belt systems that are allowed for use in HPDE / TT are 1) those that carry an “FIA B-xxx.T/98

certification, or 2) those that carry a label from the belt manufacturer stating that the belts meet Federal

Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) 209 AND that the belts were designated for the specific vehicle

(e.g. “For use only in BMW E36 models”). Such label must be easily visible to the NASA inspector.

Note- four-point belt sets that have a DOT-only certification are not allowed.

3. Non-synthetic fabric clothing (i.e. cotton).

4. No open toed shoes, or tank tops may be worn in the car while on track.

5. Drivers should wear eye protection such as goggles, safety glasses or face shields preferably made of

new impact resistant materials.

6. It is recommended that any corrective eyeglass material used be made of safety glass type that meets

U.S. Government standards

 

If the quickfit complies with 11.3.2, then they are CCR legal. I see they are "designed for the vehicle" part is met, but I can't confirm the FIA or not however.

 

Let's try this again...

there has been incidence's where a drivers were partially ejected from the vehicle in a roll over.

it doesn't end well.

 

Not sure what your point is. Are you saying a 4 point is less safe in a rollover than a 3 point?

 

Oh, and don't be an internet jerk with your "lets try this again" crap. We are all here to help each other and learn. Want to be an internet hero, there are other forums you can visit with that tude.

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cadmad

apologies...

I think you'd have the same "tude" if you witnessed a 4 point harness partial ejection that didn't end well.

doesn't meet FIA.

My point is to the inquirer.

Safety first. Proper seat and harness before a new set of wheels.

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Ev
apologies...

I think you'd have the same "tude" if you witnessed a 4 point harness partial ejection that didn't end well.

doesn't meet FIA.

My point is to the inquirer.

Safety first. Proper seat and harness before a new set of wheels.

 

A little of my background. I am an HPDE instructor, race license holder (last 7 years), and support races as part of the fire/rescue safety team (since 2001). I have seen a lot more than you can imagine.

 

In my opinion a 4 point isn't any worse or better than a 3 point in the situation you describe. Not an expert mind you, just my opinion. That said, I agree with you that a 4 point isn't a great solution, I personally wouldn't use them. If you want better harnesses, go 5+ point, proper seat and a roll bar. Trouble is, a rollbar is dangerous on the street without a helmet. It's a tough call for most of us.

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ricardofors

Thank you for the replies. All good points to ponder. My car is my daily driver in which I will be taking it to just a few track events, I don't think I will be swapping seats for hpde 1 events. I guess the CG lock thing would be a nice safety measure. I thought a 4pt harness would be too, if it wasn't safe why would it get a valid label from the different sanctioning bodies.

I will also not go to a "race" seat due to the fact that then I will have a 5 or 6pt harness, one that will at the very least require a harness bar. Again the daily driver thing gets in the way, I do use my back seats for my kids. My attempt at a 4pt harness was to get a better seating position and to not be thrown around.

I guess that I will have to use common sense and try to not drive past my abilities. If the rule book rather have me using my stock gear then so be it. There are always things like these everywhere, like it or not usually to the interpretation of the big cheeses.

I get it, race stuff happens, track day happens, but the only way to be truly prepared every time all the time in all categories would be to have a dedicated "for track use only" vehicle. I hope not as that would take away from the principle of any track day organization which is to safely, in a controlled environment, to enjoy your car, at your level of expertise/comfort.

I will bite the bullet, I will get the harness, and let whomever techs me to allow/deny their usage.

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brkntrxn

You have a C6, right? If so, you do not need a CG-Lock. Pull your seat belt ALL the way out and slowly let it back in. Corvettes have a factory locking mechanism that will ratchet after pulling the belt all the way out.

 

I have Vettes and I have CG-Locks (for use in other cars and when I instruct). Just some friendly advise... use the OEM belts until you put in a proper seat, roll bar, and 6 point harnesses.

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ricardofors
You have a C6, right? If so, you do not need a CG-Lock. Pull your seat belt ALL the way out and slowly let it back in. Corvettes have a factory locking mechanism that will ratchet after pulling the belt all the way out.

 

I have Vettes and I have CG-Locks (for use in other cars and when I instruct). Just some friendly advise... use the OEM belts until you put in a proper seat, roll bar, and 6 point harnesses.

 

I'm referring to an E92 M3. I don't have the same issues on the vette as the seats do hold me in quite well. My vette is a C7 GS with the comp seats.

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427R

Maybe try the CG-Lock first, before spending big bucks for a harness? I think you'll be surprised at how snug it'll hold you in the seat using the OEM seatbelts.

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getfast

Or maybe try some HPDE1 first before worrying about any of this. People do it in stock Kias, rental cars, whatever. The car makes very little difference, just come drive and learn and have fun

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ricardofors

hpde 1 is all I can do for now. That's the plan, to go and enjoy the car and the venue. Not trying to set any land speed record, just trying to be as firm on the seat as possible. My first event will be in March at Vir.

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slappy76

Reviving old thread because I had to look it up for my car (Fiesta ST) to drive in HPDE. They ARE in fact FMVSS 209 certified.

Also I don't see how these particular harnesses are possibly less safe than the factory 3 point seat belt in any given crash scenario. If someone had partially ejected from this 4 point then they would have also been ejected from the 3 point. There may have been an install error or manufacturing defect.

 

https://www.schrothracing.com/docs/Fiesta.pdf

on pages 3 and 4

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